Genevieve  0:07  

Welcome to I Could Never… a show about non monogamy and the many ways it can look. I'm Genevieve from Chillpolyamory on Instagram, Tiktok and YouTube, and I'm joined, as always, by my co host and partner, Ishik.

Ishik  0:19  

Yes, that's right, listeners, I'm coming to you live from the esteemed listening booth of a makeshift bed fort.

Genevieve  0:29  

Yeah, we record in a bed fort. You're giving the game away, baby.

Ishik  0:33  

I mean, this is what this episode is all about, right? It's the behind the scenes bonus episode. 

Genevieve  0:38  

It's sort of a sound booth. So we're actually doing a bonus episode today, following the ending of season one. Season two is already in pre-production, so we're gonna have some more stories for you soon, but today we're gonna answer some listener questions. 

Ishik  0:55  

Yeah, that's right, we had a bunch of really awesome submissions. Thank you all so much for sending those in, and I'm excited to get to those. But first, what's that up in the sky? Oh, god, it's a bird, it's a plane, it's Superman. What? No, it's none of that stupid shit. It's vibe or vent time.

Genevieve  1:13  

Okay, yeah, you know, I still like you. We're still gonna do this. 

Ishik  1:20  

We're still gonna do the episode. I know this is a bonus episode, but explain vibe or vent.

Genevieve  1:26  

Sure, if you're listening for the first time, Viber vent is an icebreaker that we have for all of our episodes where we talk about something that we're either excited about this week, that we're vibing about, or something that we're annoyed and pissed off about, that we need to vent and get off our chests. So would you like to vibe or vent today, baby? 

Ishik  1:45  

You know what? I think normally we would probably want to try to throw to a guest, but I think you should start today. 

Genevieve  1:50  

I should start today. Yeah, okay. Well, let's bring the mood down real fast. I think I want to vent today about the lack of hurricane preparedness that the government in the US is giving its citizens. Basically, I'm from Florida. Hurricane Milton just hit a few weeks after Hurricane Helene hit, and it's just everyone fending for themselves. You know, so many people couldn't evacuate, so many people had nowhere to evacuate. Meanwhile, the government officials are saying, like, get out or you're gonna die with no support whatsoever. What's weird, though, is I'm also heartened by the way that everybody is coming together, the way that communities always come together. There's an anarchist bookstore that people started gathering for like emotional support meetings and to help look for each other's belongings, or to help feed each other and house each other. It's cool to see people be resilient and people love on other people, and it's incredibly enraging to see these governments and institutions that are supposed to are supposedly tasked with taking care of their people fail at the fundamental thing that we've asked them to do. So, I mean.

Ishik  3:10  

I wouldn't even say that it's a failure. I think it's a not even caring. They don't care. I think that shows itself in the biggest way, in my opinion, with the prisoner population, I know that that's been, like a big thing that has been consistently seen in every single one of these storms, when they hit it's like, oh yeah, everybody else evacuate. Maybe will even provide some support through FEMA or something like that, you know, rescue operations and whatever. But then when it comes to the prisoner population, they're literally just left to die. That is, it's very upsetting. And I think situations like this, like you said, yeah, they're gonna keep happening, and it really is up to us to take care of each other, yeah.

Genevieve  3:49  

So that's, that's what's been on my mind. Anyway. Bonus episode coming in, coming in, fun time. Aren't you having a great time? 

Ishik  4:00  

Aren't you glad you joined?

Genevieve  4:01  

Baby? What are you feeling though? Let's, let's keep on with the vibe or vent. Are you vibing or venting today? 

Ishik  4:08  

Well, in the spirit of the duality of our show and our lives and our relationship, I am going to actually be vibing specifically about the show, if I'm going to be honest, it's been a pretty tough season actually, to get this out. There has been a lot of complications, especially early on, that really set us on a really rough back foot. It has been an incredibly hellish production schedule. I'm kind of just vibing like that. It's over for now, and that we got through it and have, ultimately, I think, made a really great show. I mean, I'm incredibly proud of it. It makes me feel so excited and good for the next coming seasons. Yeah, we've learned a lot. We've learned a lot, and we aren't going to be on that back foot again, which is so exciting and like to know. It's going to be so much easier next time. It makes me just excited that, you know, I think we can even make it even better.

Genevieve  5:06  

Yeah, well, in celebration of season one, and in celebration of our listeners, let's get into listener submitted questions. Okay, shall we? Look at me, I'm the queen of transitions. Whoa, whoa. Okay, let's get to the first question. My nesting partner's metamour visits once a week while I'm at work. My partner works from home and freelance. The meta can only visit then due to childcare and their work commitments, we don't really hang out. They are essentially an acquaintance to me, and seeing someone actually familiar in my home and safe space when I'm not familiar with them there feels so invasive. How can I focus on working through territorial feelings? So I guess my first thought is when you say they're acting very familiar in your home, in your safe space. Like, what does acting familiar mean? Does it mean that they are going into your room and through your stuff, right? Or is it just that you see remnants of their existence there? Or is it something else, right? Like, what is it that is happening? So that we can get a bit more specific, and I think, also better understanding in yourself how much of this is that they are a metamour, right? Because if your partner had over their close friend while you were away, or had over a family member of theirs that you don't know very well, but they're very close, like, would you still be having the same struggle? And if the answer is yes, then that also helps clarify how much of this is sort of a polyamory adjacent stressor, and how much of it is literally your space, having people in it that you're not, you know, close to or familiar with. And those aren't mutually exclusive, of course, but yeah, better understanding. You know, if this is heightened or more acute because your partner is also intimate with them, then can that be explored? What is what is it about your partner's intimacy with this person that the territorialism feels stronger, and is that a place that you want to be operating from? Are you wanting to let go of that or not lean into that as much? 

Ishik  7:09  

Yeah, I mean, and I think that if you are seeing them acting familiar in your space, it does sound like there are times when you are there at the same time as them, and it might be valuable if you feel like they are just an acquaintance to you, perhaps, and this is not necessarily the solution for everybody or what everybody wants, you might be able to make some like intentional time to get to know them better, even if you aren't necessarily friends, there can build a rapport of Respect and maybe even be able to communicate some of these things directly to them. I think that part of the issue right now is that there is just this hinge partner connection between the two of you, which is putting a lot of weight on them to try to solve this, right? And it doesn't sound like there's a whole lot of direct communication with them. So it is about you having a struggle with this person and just needing to maybe communicate that to them, yeah?

Genevieve  8:08  

If you, if you can humanize them and get to know them a bit more, we definitely don't have to, like all our metas or even have a relationship with them. I do think that mutual respect and civility is a goal. 

Ishik  8:21  

Yeah, and I'll just like kind of as a final point on that, clearly, you know, if you are able to share that space with your partner, there is a an avenue to a place where you can share space with people. And so figuring out, what is it about this relationship with your partner that enables you to share space with them. Are you able to hone in on that part of the relationship and extend that to your metamour as well? Like, what is it you need from your metamour in order to make them also feel safe, safe being in that space with you? Yeah. So this next question reads, both of my partners and I are in the same large Performing Arts Society. How do I ensure that intimate and sometimes fetish coded scenes we're performing together don't end up producing imbalances and diminishing previous moments with other partners? So I'll say just to start off that, you know, I think that there's a lot of room for interpretation with the phrase diminishing previous moments with other partners. So you know, my understanding of that, and I hope that this was your intention, this these other partners might see very intimate scenes being portrayed between you and this partner in question, and might feel that feeling of like, Wait, why do they have that kind of intimacy? Or like, why don't we have that? Or, yeah, I mean, like I said, I think there's a lot of ways to interpret that, but I hope that's what you mean.

Genevieve  9:50  

That brings up the question for me is, like, what does diminishing mean? Sometimes people will see you be intimate with someone and connect a dot. That doesn't actually connect or draw a conclusion that actually isn't true. I hear that all the time with people saying, well, our sex is special, so when you go have casual sex with someone, it diminishes what we have. Because I'm assuming that you have sex with me in a casual way, like there's that that wrong conclusion being drawn. 

Ishik  10:21  

Well, I'll say this one thing, I'm I'm actually kind of remembering. I remember I was at a kink party one night, you know, sometime back, and these two women came in, and one of them had, like, a little bit of experience with King, but not that much. And the other was, like, brand new, like new nothing. Had never tried anything. This was her first event. She just kind of was, like, jumping in, coming to a party. And I had like, various stuff, including some rope and the the very new person was interested. I was like, you know, I mean, if you'd like, I could, I could do a little tie on you. And so I did a little harness. We had a nice moment, shared moment in that space. Right afterwards, a little bit later, maybe half an hour later, I tied her friend, and the first girl, the one who was brand new, she came up to me and she said, You know, I'm feeling kind of sad that I, you know, I thought we had this, like, very special. It was a very special moment to me. And then I saw you tying her and and it made me feel some kind of way, and I was sad to hear that, because tying her was also very special to me. To this day, I feel like excited and kind of moved a little bit. It is a special moment to have tied her for the first time. In no way did tying her friend diminish that for me, right? And I can try to explain that to her as best as I can and be very honest and genuine. But if there isn't, you know we don't, we didn't know each other, she doesn't know me. If I say that, she doesn't know that I'm being honest, right? But I think that if there is trust between you and your partners to believe you when you say this experience with this other person does not affect how I feel or act with you.

Genevieve  12:04  

I think it goes a bit deeper into this monogamous mentality of what we have is special because no one else has it. You know, what we have matters and is important because it's just ours. And this sort of idea of possessing a moment, or possessing an act, or possessing like this, primacy and superiority over other connections, therefore I matter, therefore I'm safe. And can we rethink and redefine what does important mean? What does special mean? Because I can be absolutely special and important and stand shoulder to shoulder with every other special, important experience, and we don't diminish each other. And so I do encourage you know inquiring is like, what? How are we defining these things, and do we like the way that we're defining them? Is that necessary? 

Ishik  12:55  

Yeah, and I think that you can take the types of explorations that you have done to get to this point in non monogamy and extend them beyond where you've already done, right? So, like, if you have unpacked that, you can, like, if you can connect that, oh, yeah, of course you can have love for more than one friend or more than one child, and then so you're able to make the next step of like, well, what if I were to have love for more than one partner? And then you can take that and bring that to sex, right? Okay, so other than, I can have sex with more than one partner, and then I think it's taking that, extending it a little bit further. I can perform with more than one partner. I can, you know, engage in this fetish activity with more than one partner. I can engage in kink, and that doesn't like, there isn't a finite pool of specialness for any of these people. 

Genevieve  13:42  

So, yeah, okay. Next question, how do you align with your partner on what each of you wants and needs out of your non monogamous relationship? Expectation wise, how do you know if your partner is going in to have some fun or if they are going in ready for another partner, when they constantly tell you they don't know? I'm fairly new to polyamory, but this question always pops up in my relationships as expectations are concerned, due to my neurodivergent brain not being super ready for surprises. Ahahaha. Am I wrong to have this need of knowing what my partner is looking for in the person they're meeting or going on dates with? I think it's off the bat. I understand not liking surprises, and we don't know what we want with people necessarily when we first meet them, you know. So I'm a big fan of like keeping each other updated as as more becomes clear, that's my first thought. That's my first reaction, because pushing for a specific answer. I think early on, when neither of you, none of you necessarily know what the relationship is going to do, yet that can create an illusion of security, an illusion of, oh, I won't. Surprised because I got a certain answer, but you could still absolutely be surprised. So like, can it be approached with a sense of curiosity and discovery and letting this dynamic tell you how it wants to look, rather than trying to, you know, rush to a certain destination?

Ishik  15:16  

Yeah. I mean, I think that, on the one hand, I don't disagree that you can't always know, and I often will approach relationships with that like I'm gonna see what this relationship is, right? However, I do think that there are some people who do approach dating with a lot more intention. I would like to date to find somebody to fill this role, right? A parent to a child, or somebody to get married, or, you know, just having casual sex, or, yeah, like, Whatever, whatever that relationship might look like. There are some who approach that way, and I think there is a certain level of trust that needs to be had that if, if your partner is telling you that they genuinely don't have a goal in mind with their dates, and they're going in with the intention of seeing what it what's going to happen, then I think there has to be kind of a certain element of trust that that's what they mean. And I think, as genevieve was saying, if you can kind of design ways to check in with each other as the relationship progresses so that you can feel like they are updating you at a pace, that like is meeting your needs as well as respecting that they might not know right away and it might take some time for them to figure out. What is the relationship going to look like. Something that's really jumping out to me is that there is this focus right now on what the dynamic is going to look like between your partner and other potential partners that they have, when, in reality, I think that the solution here is to nail down what the dynamic looks like between you and your partner. 

Genevieve  16:54  

Yeah, what do you want?

Ishik  16:55  

What do you want, what do you need, right? And if you are able to figure those things out and ensure that those needs and wants are being met, then a new person coming in and having a unique dynamic, as long as your needs and wants are still being met, is actually going to be probably pretty fine. Yeah, that's that's the discussion here is really figuring out, what is it that you need from your relationship with your partner to feel good. 

Genevieve  17:23  

Yeah, it's often also not a binary. So I'll just leave it with that as like wanting some casual sex, wanting another life partner. You can want both of those. You can be open to both of those, depending on who enters your life, so they're not mutually exclusive. And we can also in clarifying what we ourselves want, in clarifying what you want for you, then that can also be a way to imagine many different paths. Well, if I'm with a partner who winds up getting another life partner, here's what I imagine I might want to do or what I might need. In that case, if I have a partner who's having a lot of casual sex every single night with a new partner, here's what I might need, what information I might need, or what reassurances I might need, right? And so there can be a variety of like, if this, then that hypotheticals that you know, if you are wanting some answers, like, you don't know what the future will hold but you can rest easy that you are considering what tools you will reach for when the unknown happens.

Ishik  18:30  

Okay, so up next we have I am curious how you navigate supporting a partner who may need more support than you have the capacity or the willingness to give. I'm in a dynamic at the moment where I am needing so much support and I'm craving that support from my long distance partner. My partner also has a lot going on, and we are finding it challenging to find a balance where he can maintain his routines of having weekends and intentional time with other partners, while also giving me the energy and support that I crave from him. I moved alone to a new city, and I'm still building my community. He is not my only line of support, but he is one of the biggest ones. What I'll say is that there has definitely been at least a point in the past in our relationship, yours and mine, where I have been a very big primary support person, right? And I think at the time there was a lot fewer people you could turn to for support at that point.

Genevieve  19:32  

You’re being very diplomatic.

Ishik  19:34  

Yeah, you weren't in therapy at the time, and while you did have some, like, friendships outside of our relationship that you you know, there wasn't a big emphasis on growing those as, like, close friendships, and you didn't have any other partners at the time and and you were just struggling a lot. There was a lot of emotional work that needed doing. And I'm more than I. Happy. You know, I love being a support person, but it was just a lot. It was a lot. There needed to be an explicit conversation about like, Hey, I'm okay, but I don't want this to become a resentment. And so what I needed was just that there was other support. 

Genevieve  20:16  

Yeah, you rightfully named that it was bigger than you, right? Because you're allowed to have limits. You're allowed to be a human being. You're allowed to, you know, not have capacity some days, and that's really tough, especially when we want love and support and reassurance from a specific person. I don't think it's an all or nothing like you either get it or you don't. It's just sort of like, I think it can be helpful to check in with the person of like, where they're at today and what they have available to give, because we, we want it to be sustainable, like it's a marathon and not a sprint. So we don't want somebody to burn out supporting us, and then it becomes a problem in the relationship. You know, it becomes a conflict now or now, suddenly they're at zero and have nothing to give. So what could we keep doing where nobody burns out and nobody resents each other? That tends to be where I start. When I think about sustainability.

Ishik  21:10  

I think that sometimes, if that's just the reality where, like, this is a person that I know cares about me, and they're telling me this is what I have the capacity for. That is not probably something said lightly, right? That that's probably something said with the care and desire to preserve and protect the relationship, right? I know that when I said that to you, that was out of a desire to preserve and protect the relationship and to best support you, and then seeing, okay, well, then what steps need to be taken on both sides. Right? For me, it was, it was setting hard limits on what specific types of things could I not support, or when could I not support, or whatever. And for you, it was finding who you could bring those specific topics to. But I do think that just generally, that idea of of accepting the limitations of support that our partners can give us, and not making them the end all be all that that's something that we can really gain from a non monogamous mindset, right?

Genevieve  22:18  

Yeah, yeah. I mean, personally, I developed a lot of like, optimism in at least making gestures towards building new relationships, you know, message boards and group support, you know, around a specific topic can be like a quick go to I definitely take it with a grain of salt, because it's often also people who are struggling, as it might not Be. You know, solutions so much as commiseration, and that also serves a purpose. But, yeah, in a in a pinch, I reached out to people who were already gathering around that specific struggle. But I also felt optimism in messaging a new friend that I met, saying, Hey, how you doing? What's going on? Like, how's your day? You know, giving and then starting to build that relationship and being like, I'm so excited, I'm starting to build a network locally, right? Like, this is uncomfortable, and I see light at the end of the tunnel because I see the moves that I'm making. In my experience, it has helped me hang on and tolerate the in between times. I don't know if that makes sense. Okay. Next question, how do you know if you are actually solo, polyamorous, or if you just have quote, unquote commitment issues or unrealistic desires or standards?

Ishik  23:37  

I mean, right off the bat, my first reaction is, what does like? What the hell does unrealistic desires or standards mean? I actually think, I don't really believe there is a such a thing as unrealistic desires or standards. Your desires are your desires. What you want is what you want, and if you want to be treated a certain way, and the people you meet aren't willing or able to do that, then that's not the right person for you. And I truly believe that there are the people out there who can provide, who can feel any want or need that you might have. That's kind of one of the beautiful things about non monogamy, is we get to design our own relationships. And so, yeah, I just hear that. And I'm like, Who is saying this to you? 

Speaker 1  24:23  

Yeah, who is saying told you that? Who said this to you, who told you that? We’re feeling protective  of you.

Ishik  24:29  

And I think, yeah, like separating out what people are saying to us from what we want to do, right? If there's work that you want to do around commitment, or something like that, or work you want to do about what kinds of relationship you want to have, that's great. I encourage that kind of work 100% but if it's somebody saying, Oh, you're just saying you're solo, polyamorous, because you have commitment issues, or because your standards are too high, like, fuck that person, yeah? Tell them go fuck themselves.

Genevieve  24:58  

Yeah. I can say for. For you, I could not imagine how good you treat me. Yeah, I couldn't. He always tells me, like, raise your damn standards, because he'll do something really nice. And I'm like, Oh, thank you. That's so amazing. You're like, just have this be normal, that this is not amazing. This is normal, right? So I do think that partner choice matters when it comes to who we bring very close and who we see like mirror back to us. So if there is a hesitance or a rejection against what might be seen as commitment, can it be asked? Why? Why don't I want to be closer to this person, have regularity with this person, have some kind of connection with this person. Why?

Ishik  25:46  

Yeah, I don't necessarily think there is a tie between these ideas of solo polyamory and a commitment issue or commit phobia. I think that that is a, like a stereotype of solo polyamory. That's the key everybody's always like, what does solo polyamory mean to me? It means I'm dating myself, or am I my own primary or all these other things, right? I think at its core, solo polyamory, in my opinion, is basically just that you don't want to build that level of interdependence with other partners that you don't want to have that as an element in your relationships. I don't see that as having necessarily anything to do with commitment, right?

Genevieve  26:29  

Because sometimes people will commit to once a week for years, and that's a commitment to a regularity and to a consistency, and it's not a commitment to interdependence, you know?

Ishik  26:41  

I mean, just to kind of, as you were touching on, clearly, you're referring to, you know, Jocelyn. Obviously, if you're a listener of the of the show, you've heard Jocelyn. She was the fourth episode of season one, and, you know, she had a regular thing every Tuesday, right? This partner, they're meeting up, they're having sex, right? That level of consistency every day or every week for years is a commitment. 

Genevieve  27:05  

Yeah, you can absolutely welcome someone into your life with regularity and build whatever you want to build without them. And do you like your own motives, right? If you don't like your own motives, if you're self investigating, and you're like, I'm doing this out of fear, right? Because we don't want to be acting out of fear, out of anger, out of resentment. If you feel like you're acting from that place that's worth exploring, but if you're acting from a place of like, deep certainty, like I sat still with myself, and this is what my gut told me, and it feels amazing, great. Follow that, and only you will know if you like your own motives. 

Ishik  27:58  

Stop talking about my dick.

Genevieve  28:00  

Put that in that it's good, it's good, it'll make sense, and it's a good transition. That's what I like about it.

Ishik  28:06  

Anyways. So the next one we have, I'm gonna do a little bit of summarizing. They provide some context. So forgive me if I'm a little choppy with my delivery, my partner and I have been together for five years. About halfway through the relationship, we started exploring opening up the relationship. We ended up closing about a year ago, my partner ultimately asked to because they were low on emotional capacity for non monogamous dynamic after an event that kind of marked the beginning of a very difficult season, they didn't have any partners when they decided to close any ongoing partnerships, and so it's been about a year since then, and I miss non monogamy. I've been able to reflect a lot on those initial months of being open and why they went so poorly, and I feel much more confident now in my ability to practice non monogamy. And the last thing I want to do at this time is to bring stress to my partner's life or make them feel like I don't care about their comfort, but I worry that I will enter self abandonment territory if I'm not able to explore non monogamy again sometime in the near future, especially since the circumstances that are causing them to struggle could last indefinitely. Am I a bad person for wanting them to try being monogamous again right now? Yeah. And the overarching question is, is there ever a wrong time to try to introduce or reintroduce some version of non monogamy into your relationship? Thing? I will say, just to start, I think that the shortest answer to that is, no, I don't think there is ever a wrong time. Yeah, if I'm being completely honest, I think that not objectively, not objectively, exactly. I think that there can be a time that you choose to do it, but I mean, kind of leaning on something that you've definitely said in the past is that there isn't necessarily the right time. To have hard conversations. It's the time that you're willing to have the discomfort of going through a hard conversation. And so I think that with this not being true to this thing that you still really want, that might be the signal that you are wanting to make this change, and are maybe ready to go through that discomfort that the discomfort of not changing will be greater than the discomfort of changing. 

Genevieve  30:27  

Yeah, so I'm going to assume, based on your question, that your partner also does want non monogamy, because, you know, if, if it were the case that they never wanted it to begin with, and you know, then it may be a different conversation about overall goals and are you on the same page? But I'll assume you both do want non monogamy for yourselves. If you are noticing, a resentment could form, right? If I keep pushing this down, if I keep denying what what I'm thinking or feeling, then I could resent the very relationship I'm hoping to protect, you know, and so that's good information, and I would encourage, like, including that in the conversation, not as a threat and not as an ultimatum, but just like, hey, I don't want to set us up for resentment either. I want to be thoughtful of you. I want to take care of you and not like, add to your distress. And you know, it could have this unintended consequence if we take care of you in this way, if we continue to take care of you in this way, right there, there are dozens of ways this could play out. It's not a binary, you know, be wary of black and white thinking of we either are doing it or we're not. You know, it's like, hey, I want to get back on the apps. I might go on a first date for coffee, and how can I love on you and remind you that you're safe? You know, that is very different than just like first dates every night of the week and sleeping with everybody and not checking in on your partner, right? Like there's, there's not an all or nothing when it comes to non monogamy, and I don't think it's about like, one person's distress gets comforted and another person's doesn't. I don't think it's like a weighing of who's more upset, and the more upset person gets their need met and the other person doesn't. It's like, yeah, factoring everything in and seeing is there, yeah, something that serves all of us.

Ishik  32:19  

It's about being on the same team and acknowledging, okay, I have this need and you have this need. How can we make these needs coexist? Right? And I think that's the conversation, is that your needs are also valid. Their needs are also valid, right? Like, bringing these both together and figuring out together how to fill everyone's needs. 

Genevieve  32:40  

Yeah. I talk a lot with people about, like, separating the need from the ask. So if the need is, well, they want to feel safe, and the ask is, please don't go on new dates, right? The need to feel safe, you both can definitely want that. I want you to feel safe. Your solution to that is now got these side effects, right? Of me, you know, questioning, am I forgetting myself and so on. So is there a different way we can make you feel safe, like a saying, like being teammates. We both want this to feel stable. We both want you to feel loved and to know deep in your bones, I'm not going anywhere, right? And is there another outcome? Is there another like solution to this that would also accommodate my needs?

Ishik  33:27  

And I also think, just as a final thought, the thing you touched on is that separating the need in the ask, right? I think it's really that's about really drilling into what exactly is the need. Because I think at first glance, when we think about what our needs are, it will feel like the ask, right? The ask is, what will come to mind? 

Genevieve  33:47  

I need you to not go on more dates. 

Ishik  33:50  

And I think drilling into what's the actual, what's the actual need behind that ask? And it's, I need to feel safe, I need to feel loved. I need to feel like you're not going to leave me. I need to feel like my needs matter, right? Like, whatever that is, people have any variety of different needs. And I think really exploring when there is an ask, what is the actual need there?

Genevieve  34:19  

Yeah, what is the Ask trying to do? And if you don't like their suggestion, is there another way to do that thing? Yeah. Okay. Next question, my wife and I are in a new triad relationship with another woman. What are some pitfalls to avoid unicorn hunting, really looking to do right by everyone and avoid toxicity wherever we can. So, so when you say unicorn hunting, I'm going to assume, like the sort of the package deal of of couples privilege and, you know, objectifying third, right? Because it sounds like you're already in a triad. Yeah.

Ishik  34:55  

That sounds like what they might be, yeah. 

Genevieve  34:59  

So I personally don't subscribe to toxic or non toxic, you know, as descriptors, but I do get what you're saying. So some pitfalls to avoid. I think, I think a helpful first question is, am I assuming anything? Is anything a given? Well, of course, my wife would be my plus one to this event, for example, right? Well, of course, you know, I wouldn't check with this new partner if my wife and I wanted to go on vacation, for example, right? Like, if the three of you are aiming to have a more like equitable trio? Is there any Well, of course, of a given that defers to your wife, basically having more power, more decision making, you know, ability, than this newer person. That is something that is easy to have still come along with us from monogamy. It's a leftover from monogamy, and we want to actively question it and and include newer people to remind them that they have decision making power, that they matter too. But beyond that, you know, not knowing anything about your triad. A lot of times, a duo has a routine, a plan. They have goals that they've set out, especially if you've been together long term, and a newer person can be seen as an add on, as somebody that is like filling in the gaps, or, you know, and I'm obviously not accusing you, that is more of just something to be considerate of, is like opening up future plans to now discussion again, you know, of this is a whole person, not just somebody that is adding on, and that can be kind of tricky, because it's not just one decision you make. You don't just say, like, Oh yeah, yeah. I believe that one time, it's in all of the tiny ways that we speak to each other, ways that we talk to each other, just reminding this newer person, you are welcome, you matter. I do think, and sometimes it's a little nitpicky, but I do think sometimes the language as well, you know, in approaching this person who's newer, if there's a lot of we want this, we do this if the two of you are coming sort of mentally as one unit, especially during conflict, right? If it's two versus one, right? Like you're not one hive mind, the two of you. And that can be something that is very normalized in monogamous culture. Is like two halves of a whole in a monogamous couple, right? And so really owning, like, wait, wait, I have a separate reaction from my partner. Here's what I think and what I want, and that's separate from what my partner thinks and wants. They're their own person. And so there's an active, like mental separation of two autonomous beings, you know, in in the triad.

Ishik  37:53  

That makes sense, yeah, I do think that sometimes mentality can definitely follow from language like that, and being really deliberate about those language choices can actually really influence in a big way, both how we act and think, but also how our partners experience that, right? And I think even to the point of if it's not about conflict or whatever, and it would be the most expeditious way to say, oh, yeah, we were talking about this, and this would be good. Just saying, Yeah, I want this. And when I was speaking to her, she expressed that as well, right? That's separating out your thoughts and their thoughts. 

Genevieve  38:33  

It's reminding the newer person that she is dating two people. She's not just dating a couple, you know. And a lot of times a newer person and a triad can feel a little bit like, well, last one in, first one out. If there's any conflict, I'm the disposable one. I'm the appendage, you know. And if that's not the goal, if you envision long term building with this person, you know, like, can you talk about how they can feel welcome.

Ishik  39:03  

If I'm going to be completely honest, I think that this is one of the scenarios where it can be very easy to fall into the trap of not realizing you're the one with the power, and thinking that somebody else is coming in and and threatening you, and your existing power structure makes them powerful, and it's like, no, actually, you you're as the people in the pre existing relationship. There is a lot more of a likelihood that there will be an existing power structure, you know, you say wife, so it sounds like there's probably a legal marriage involved, sharing housing, sharing finances, sharing pets or children. So I think just being really critical of those things and saying, Hey, like, we see this, and we want you to see I just did it. I said, we right. I just literally so easy. It's so easy. And so I think, yeah, bringing that to the new partner and saying, Hey, I'm thinking about this actively, and I know that I've been talking with. With my other partner about that as well. And I want you to know how important you are to me. Yeah. And how, how can I with these things in mind, challenge that, yeah, like, how can, how can you feel safe in this relationship with me, with her, and with us together, you know? 

Genevieve  40:18  

So, yeah, no, I really like what you said about the naming of power dynamics, like literal power dynamics. But also there's a there's a power to having longevity, having inside jokes, having a sense of security with each other, that you know each other so deeply, right? Like that can be quite intimidating to somebody newer. And it is very true that sometimes one or more of the pre existing dynamics like that they're scared. And I think it can be easy to abuse power when we're scared. You know, it can be easy to forget that we're powerful when we're scared. A lot of the harm that I see in dynamics like this is from a spouse thinking that the newer person is just waltzing in and has all the power, you know, and really naming like I'm scared and I have a responsibility, you know, like I'm scared, I need care, I need love, and I want To be thoughtful that I don't harm so just holding both of those things that true as true at the same time can go a long way. 

Ishik  41:26  

The just the fact that you're looking to not do harm to anyone, that's a fantastic start. So I think you're you're doing great. Just keep going down this path. 

Genevieve  41:34  

Stay curious. Stay stay open your doing great. 

Ishik  41:38  

Next question. Short, but deep question. How to support a partner through a breakup of a serious, long term relationship? Yeah, so, I mean, like you're their friend, right? That's, that's what I think, in the biggest nutshell, right? How would you support your friends with with a breakup, you talk to them about their feelings and and you're there for them. 

Genevieve  42:06  

Yeah, I ask a lot of questions like, What do you need? What are you feeling? You don't want to forget yourself. You don't want to forget your own relationship. You know, sometimes it can be easy to, like, say, Oh, you're going through a really hard time. Like, let me, let me. Like, not have needs. But I think just helping them explore their grief or their anger to the extent that you want to, to the extent that you can, you know, what are your own limits that can be helpful to also name of like, if you're starting to get heated, if you're starting to get activated because of the story, they're getting into the weeds of the nitty gritty, and you're starting to feel ways. Okay, can we maybe skip over the details and I just support you with your grief? I just support you with your anger. You know, sometimes you don't have to know everything to be able to support them with your emotions. So ask a lot of questions about your emotions. How How are you doing? How can I love on you? What are you available for? What do you have energy for today? You know, if we're going on a date, are you completely burnt out? Okay, let's have a cozy day at home watching a movie. You know, like adapting how we spend time together to accommodate their grief, which also goes to the friendship of it all.

Ishik  43:15  

I do know that my initial answer was like, a little glib, right? But like to give a little bit more space to I think what the question is asking about is, my guess is that it's very possible that the person can be struggling, and that that might impact their ability to show up for your relationship with them, right? Let's say, for instance, they're feeling really sad, and so they their sex drive is lower, and that's impacting your relationship. I think the best solution there is to be open and honest and discussing that right, and acknowledging that that is not a reflection of your of like the health and status and well being of your relationship. It is how they are feeling, I'll say that, you know, when, when we first started dating you were dating somebody else, and about a year or so, a little bit more maybe, into us dating you two, and ended up breaking up, and, like, during that whole process, there was some like, dishonesty And, you know, either borderline or straight up cheating, and between him and me, between Yeah, he cheated on me, yes, and that's your business to talk about, and you were feeling less like, Close like, less safe, feeling Yeah, it was less trusting, exactly, a lot less trusting, and it was affecting our sexual relationship. We weren't really having much of any sex at all for a period of time. And I remember that being a real struggle for me at the time, and like talking to friends and being like, Oh, that's not fair. That's not fair. But then I stepped out of it being. Like an attack on me, and it just acknowledged you're in pain and you're struggling, and that is not a Yeah, like a punishment. I remember at first thinking that I was being punished for his infidelity, and that felt really unfair, and realized, Oh, wait no, this is my partner, and she's hurting. I'm gonna support her through this pain, right? I think, I think extending that kind of a mentality of like, that's just like, where you're at.

Genevieve  45:33  

Yeah, I think if it's possible to draw a parallel with like, what if their best friend stopped talking to them, or what if their sibling, you know, was out of their life? You know, it is grief. It is grief of a significant connection, and they're going to have their own experience, and their experience, the ups and downs, the highs and lows. It's not your responsibility to fix it. It's also not something within your control, or even their control, right? So I just kind of along for the ride and it will pass, right? So you're their teammate in them riding this wave of grief, but you're also allowed to have needs during this Yeah. 

Ishik  46:18  

Thank you so much for all the questions for this season.

Genevieve  46:20  

Thank you so much for all of your questions that you submitted. We are so excited. We're already in pre production for, we're in production. We're in production for season two. We have so many cool stories to bring to you, so we're really looking forward to that. Yeah, look out for that in the new year.

Ishik  46:38  

Yeah, I also want to just second you know. Thank you so much for everyone who sent out questions. You know, obviously we're sorry if we weren't able to get to your question today, if we didn't get to your question and you wanted to speak more with Genevieve about them, she does do one on one peer support sessions. You can find that on her website, chillpolyamry.com but yeah. So in addition to that, if you are looking for any other non monogamy content as always, you can find her on chill polyamory on Instagram, as well as Tiktok, along with media analysis of non monogamy in film and TV, on chill polyamory on YouTube.

Genevieve  47:18  

Yeah, if you're looking for more examples. In the meantime, between seasons one and two, I explore fictional examples in film and TV on YouTube, chill polyamory. I also have a second channel, chill polyamory 2t, O, O, and that's where I share recordings of live chats that I have. And if you would like to be a part of those live chats, I have them regularly on patreon.com/chill, polyamory. If you would like to hang out, ask me whatever you want. And I also have a pen pals option if you would like to email back and forth. So there's a lot of ways to stay in touch in the meantime.

Ishik  47:54  

And I'll just throw it out there, if you want to just support the podcast, that is the best way you can support us. For anyone who has joined to support the show, we really appreciate it. So grateful. Are really, really grateful. And, and, yeah, I mean, it's been a lot of work, and every single time that somebody validates that work and pays our bills, it really helps. 

Genevieve  48:16  

Yeah, so it's patreon.com/chillpolyamory. Or you can chat with me, one on one. Chillpolyamory.com.

Ishik  48:22  

And just so that we're finishing properly, remember that just because you haven't done something for doesn't mean you can't do it. Bye! Bye!