Genevieve  0:00  

Welcome to I could never a podcast about non monogamy and the many ways it can look. I'm Genevieve from chill polyamory on Instagram, Tiktok and YouTube. I'm joined by my co host and partner, ishik.

Ishik  0:19  

It is, in fact, Hi, my name is ishik. I'm here. How's it going? I am extremely excited to welcome our guest to the show today. She is an absolutely legendary YouTuber and public speaker who makes, and I quote, content for introspective, hot people who are interested in learning more about themselves. Kat blaque!

Kat Blaque  0:38  

Hi I'm also here! 

Ishik  0:40  

Thank you so much for joining us today.

Kat Blaque  0:41  

Yes, very excited to have this conversation. 

Genevieve  0:44  

Well, we've been big fans of yours for a long time, so it's a pleasure to have you on to talk a bit more about your polyamory.

Ishik  0:49  

Yes, yes. We all love Kat so very much. But before we can hear any more about how wonderful she is, there is something we must do. Something is lurking awaiting its once yearly visit to the shore from the depths of Davy Jones' Locker to visit its Queen of the pirates wife. It's vibe or vent time. Okay, something I'm on it. A beloved movie.

Genevieve  1:11  

For anyone listening for the first time, we always like to start the show off with a little icebreaker called vibe or vent where we'll each take a beat to share a bit about something that's either really making us happy recently or something that sucks that we need to get off our chest. So ishik, would you like to start us out?

Ishik  1:28  

Unfortunately, I would like to start us off. So I was just earlier today watching Tiktok, YouTube, etc. I play like DND into tabletop role playing games. And there's, like, definitely a huge community online of people who make content around ttrpgs. And there's a creator who, long story short, was involved in this big drama. He was, like, lying about being in any number of relationships. He's He's a serial cheater and liar who was involved in a number of relationships, some of whom he was claiming were monogamous, some others he was claiming were polyamorous and just lying to everybody, controlling everybody, shit, talking tons of people. Consistent thing throughout all of the interactions was that this guy just really wanted to have power. He wanted to be in control of these situations. So even though everybody involved was open to non monogamy, he still lied again and again and again because he just wanted to be in control. And it was just like, it's really sickening. So I was just watching that earlier today, and so it's super on my mind. And you know, it's a show about non monogamy. So.

Kat Blaque  2:39  

I hate that I knew about that. I hate that I knew exactly the thing you were talking about.

Ishik  2:43  

I saw you. Were like, nodding. I was like, Oh, she's definitely saw some of this. 

Kat Blaque  2:47  

Oh, yeah, I watched several videos about it. 

Genevieve  2:50  

Well, Kat, is there something that you'd like to vibe or vent about today? 

Kat Blaque  2:54  

There's too many things. I will try not to vent too much. I had my facebook page deleted this week. It was hacked and deleted, and that's been frustrating. You know, even though I'm an atheist and I don't like to believe in much, I do tend to believe that things happen for a reason, and the universe moves the way that it must move sometimes, and I'd already kind of been over my Facebook page. It helps that Facebook sucks because I'm not going to use it. The biggest issue is that it's verified with my name on it, because I do not want people to use the image of a black trans woman to say stupid bullshit. That's my biggest problem is, like, Don't say things in my name. Like, let me say the stupid stuff myself. Don't, like, impersonate me. So now I'm at the point where I'm like, if I can't fully get control over it, just delete it for sure.

Ishik  3:45  

Well, Genevieve, 

Genevieve  3:48  

yeah, no, I think I'm vibing today with continuing to be no contact with my family of origin, and it was something that took probably about eight years to be willing to do. Yeah. I mean, it's something that I'm surprised to be happy about, and a little guilty still to be happy about. And also, my life for the last decade has been marked by personal crisis after personal crisis, largely from just supporting family, well, specifically in a very non reciprocal in a very non reciprocal way. And that's and that's when I decided to walk away last summer. Was like, it revealed itself when I needed, like, a fraction of decency, that that was asking too much. And I was like, why am I doing this again? And I got a reminder this week. I'm pretty sure one of them through a dummy account, but very specific language that revealed themself started heckling me, and I was like, Okay, this is a good reminder of why I'm not inviting you close. So that is, I think the move is to go where you're loved and to put your energy in relationships that are reciprocal. So absolutely, yeah, that's. That's what I'm vibing about today.

Kat Blaque  5:01  

I totally identify with that, and I love that, that that is your conclusion, ultimately, yeah,

Ishik  5:06  

well, there is nothing but love here. Oh, I don't know. I want to put any words in your mouth. Kat,

Kat Blaque  5:13  

I'm in a loving mood, you know.

Ishik  5:16  

But speaking of love and many loves, let's talk about some polyamory. So Kat, if you would just give the listeners a little rundown of what your non monogamy looks like right now. 

Kat Blaque  5:29  

Okay, and this is the best time for me to summarize my non monogamy, because it's in its most like functional place, frankly, because I've had many different structures, but currently I have four long term partners, and I know that sounds like a lot, but they tend to fit in my life in a way that makes a lot of sense. Edward is my primary partner. He's like the one who I spend most of my time with, and I was a very solo, poly person for a really long time who didn't want a primary partner. I specifically didn't want that as the pandemic sort of happened and I was quarantined, and then my relationships changed within quarantine in a pretty dramatic way. I came out with more openness for that, and I pretty immediately found that so he's been my longest term primary partner on my partner, Alexander, is married, and I probably see him the most frequently after Edward, but I only really see him, like, maybe every other week. He works for a very big company that keeps him very, very busy. So we kind of see each other when we can. I have a partner who lives out of state, who I call Victor. Victor is a partner who lives in Portland. He's awesome. He's like, my survivalist partner. I think a lot about the end of the world for some reason. So he is like, my main one who knows those things, and he's awesome. He's also like my gothiest partner of all the people that I date. My longest partner, Nathan. I started dating him when I was living in Orange County. He introduced me to a lot of things. He was the very first man that I dated who was Polly. I don't see him as much as I used to, because now I live in Los Angeles, and he recently just moved in with one of his partners, so we have less of a ability to see each other, at least mutually, back and forth. But it all works for me. As far as I know, everyone's very happy with it. It works for everyone. And when I moved, they all helped me move, and there's nothing hung up in my apartment that wasn't hung up by some one of my partners. So I'm very happy to finally have, like, a group of partners who kind of interact well with each other. That hasn't always been the case in my poly life.

Genevieve  7:27  

I love that. Yeah, so you, you mentioned that you used to describe yourself as solo polyamory, and now you have a primary I'm wondering if you can share, like, what those terms mean for you,

Kat Blaque  7:40  

when I was describing myself as solo, poly, and you could still maybe argue that I am, to some degree, still, what that meant for me at the time was that I was moving as a singular unit. I wasn't living in a way where, you know, my partners had much of an influence on where I went, how I dated, how I lived my life. And I didn't want a primary partner. I didn't want to be beholden to a man, especially after being in a six year relationship where we lived together for five years, I was like, I'm going to live alone. I don't want to have any men in my house for a long time. And that was that now I'm sort of different in that even though I still have my own place and still kind of move by myself. Functionally, I have this partner who I know I trust, who loves me, you know, dotes on me, you know, treats me better than most men have treated me, and so naturally, I'm going to just enjoy spending most of my time with him. That doesn't mean that like like, my issue with with hierarchy, when I tried to date other people who are hierarchical is I will make plans with them. They will cancel our plans because of some other partner. That's the biggest one that's happened to me so many times. And I hate that, because that's a clear expression of like, okay, you're just not as your time, your any everything is just not as valuable to me as what this person wants. I don't do that, and I also don't allow my my partner to cancel my plans or influence my plans a negative way unless I'm personally in a position where I don't want to see somebody that day. So yeah, I don't really necessarily have hierarchy like that, but I do, if you know when I'm making my schedule, if I have the choice between going on a first date with someone and, you know, spending time with my partner cuddled up at home. I'm probably going to choose being the latter, you know,

Genevieve  9:28  

yeah, and so it sounds like it's a way to manage expectations, rather than, like, granting him power over other people. I didn't hear that in your description, yeah, I am curious. You know, you said that you've been with Edward the shortest amount of time, right? I'm curious this arc, or like, how your relationship, how you met, and how it evolved to become this more prioritized connection. 

Kat Blaque  9:51  

Yeah, so I went to my favorite bar in LA the day that they reopened after being in quarantine, and I was sitting. At the spot that I usually sit. And this guy was sitting next to me, and he kept looking at me, looking at his phone, looking at me, and he was like, I think we matched on, okay, Cupid, um. And I looked at him, I was like, okay, that that sounds correct, because he was cute.

Ishik  10:14  

You look like someone I would match with,.

Kat Blaque  10:16  

Literally. And so we just started talking, and it was like we had an immediate connection. We we like a lot of the same things. He kind of dresses a little bit like a Yakuza, and that's sort of like what I told him. And we started talking about, like mafia movies, and we just got along really, really well. And so it felt really natural that it didn't quite feel forced. And so we just naturally started spending most of our time together. And he has, more than any of my partners, historically, been so deeply invested in taking care of me. Frankly, I'm a historically, very independently minded, stubborn person who refuses to ask for help. Frankly, I'm a very powerful person that does a lot of things, but I'm kind of all over the place, and usually the partners who I end up connecting with perceive that very, very easily and take on like a daddy role, I'll just say. And that's what he is for me. And so he has done so much in terms of getting my business together. He's a paralegal, and he like, helped me with all of that, all these things that I should have done that I always feel I cannot do that. I always feel like overwhelmed thinking about doing he's like, I'm just gonna do it for you so you don't have to worry about it. And like every one of my partners sort of has that approach, which is probably why I resonate with them. But yeah, he just makes me feel safe and warm and comfortable, and he's really big on celebrating my appearance and, you know, appreciating what I look like and stuff. And it just made me really fall in love with him. And it's not because he's helping me, but it just felt really good. And it felt like, you know, why should this not be the man I'm spending most of my time with? It works really well, and I'm seeing him later today. So

Ishik  12:04  

I think it's always, it's always funny to me, because, like, save for the parts where you mentioned having other partners, right? I think most monogamous people would hear that and be like, yes, that's exactly what I'm looking for in my life. Is that kind of relationship right there? And it's like, yeah, it's the same shit, guys. It's all the same.

Kat Blaque  12:21  

Yeah, because, like most people, I, at one point wanted monogamy and thought that that was the only reasonable way to be. One of my YouTube videos forever ago was like, why would never be polyamorous? And it was like a description of why wouldn't be poly. And here we are several long term partners.

Genevieve  12:38  

Wow. So you mentioned that Nathan was your first partner that you ever dated that was polyamorous. How long ago was that? 

Kat Blaque  12:45  

I'm so bad at math, um, whatever. However long ago 2016 was, I think it was 2016 I broke I was with someone for six years, a monogamous relationship, and when I met him, I was coming out of that. And like changing as a person, very, very drastically, frankly. And so he was kind of like the new, interesting, edgy person that was going to teach me about stuff. And yeah, I've learned a lot of about polyamory through him. And you know, the different growing pains that come along with it. And it's funny, because for me, I had so many people when I was younger, basically say, I think you might be polyamorous just because they observed the way that I dated, but I was very much in denial of that. And so once I actually had the opportunity to date someone who was polyamorous, who I was attracted to I liked, I figured out pretty quickly that I took very well to it, and that it worked very well for me. 

Ishik  13:39  

You know, you did mention that the growing pains when we were starting to date, Nathan, can you tell us a little bit more about those?

Kat Blaque  13:45  

So Nathan, he was the guy who I talked to a lot about my issues with other part people starting out, I recognize that I have to be, you know, as someone who only dates men. I have to be really clear about when you say you're polyamorous when you say you're ethically non monogamous. What do you mean by that? I didn't understand that a lot of men who describe themselves as polyamorous are not. I think a lot of that relates to this new wave of people learning the language and learning about polyamory and deciding to use it not as an expression of how they love, but a way to move through the world in a way where they can get what they want. Far too many men get a half yes from their partner, and then they start relationships. And so what's happened for me so many times is I'll be going on dates with someone. I'll be vibing with them. I'll be, like, really interested in and, you know, being with them, and I'll be thinking that, because of our interactions, we are leading to some sort of long term relationship. Then I will inevitably get the phone call that, you know, is something along the lines of, hey, my partner isn't happy with this situation, or she's having some sort of. Crisis, or, you know, this and this and that, you know, a lot of times they'll put it on her. We can't see each other anymore because of her, essentially. And so that leaves me thinking, so like, what is it about me that makes me so easy to throw away? And that's an issue that I've had with quite a few Holly men. I was in a situation where I was going on dates with someone. I went on like, four dates with someone. If I go on four dates with you, I probably want to have sex with you. Um, so I was like, ready to do it. And then he told me on that fourth date that, like, he hadn't been fully communicating with his wife, that he was actually going on dates with me, that he had been saying he was just going and getting a drink with a friend, sort of thing. And this was like, the date where we were supposed to, like, do the naughty, and that his wife would be willing to, like, join us and like, meet me later, sort of thing. And like, just wasn't up front. And I had to figure out pretty quickly that there were some people who were latching onto polyamory as an identity, basically to cheat on their partners, if I'm being frank, or to have like, a stop gap between starting a relationship with another person ending the relationship with the person that they're with, or try to make it seem like their marriage is not going to get in the way or become a reason to break up with me when it is, you know. And so for that reason, I feel like talking about that because I don't want anyone to get hurt and and be so optimistic about polyamory that they think every dude who says they're poly actually is and is actually being honest with them. So I know that we don't want to focus on the bad things. I'm always a person in all conversations who tries to be realistic about the dangers of things. So it's important for me to point out to people, yeah,

Genevieve  16:45  

I don't think it's negative so much as, like, don't learn the hard way, like I did, you know, I think there's so much value in people who practice polyamory and love it, saying this is what liars look like. And, you know, I think that that is so needed to and, yeah and so to your point, you know, you mentioned that sometimes people's marriage would be a reason that you broke up. Do you have an example of a time that happened?

Kat Blaque  17:09  

So I had a situation where I had sex with someone, and after that, their partner wanted me to pay for the guy that I had sex with to be on PrEP because she was suddenly concerned about sexual health stuff, which, you know, valid, but it became this thing where it was like, because I'm a trans woman in this and their partner is sleeping with me, she had this expectation that I would financially be willing to invest in a medication that I don't take so that she had security. And that sucked. That really fucking sucked. Because I know what my sexual health is. I have four partners. It's part of my responsibility. But that sucked, right? So sometimes I've had that a little bit where you could tell that the person they prioritize is not fully comfortable with them dating me, someone like me, and so they want to, like, control the way that the relationship goes, or what we can and can't do, and that's just not, you know, we're not going to limit how we have sex or when we have sex, or, you know, because of that, if that is something you feel like you need to do, maybe this person shouldn't be dating other people. I don't know. That's the absolute line for me. I don't want to limit my sex life with someone because of someone else, you know, unless I'm having sex with that person, right? If I'm not, if you're not in the bedroom, you can't control it. So, yeah, that's something I've kind of dealt with.

Ishik  18:34  

That's some super fucking insidious transphobia right there. That's a new one. That's like, and like, it's also wild. Like, who has that thought of, like, no, no, you have to pay for so I feel, yeah, it's really like, there's definitely that heavy implication of, like, you're gonna bring a bad thing to to my life with your badness. And it's just like, Jesus Christ, yeah. 

Kat Blaque  18:57  

And of course, they broke up ultimately, you know, and she pulled me aside in the club on one day, and she was like, Oh, I'm really like, it was so weird. She was like, You really helped him understand some stuff about himself. So thank you for that. Like I was performing some sort of service for him to, like, self develop and grow after we had that whole thing that's so fucking objectifying. Jesus, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And unfortunately, objectification is a big part of some of the relationships that I've been in. And I don't know how this sounds, this is maybe gonna sound a certain way, but something that I've something I've learned to accept about myself, is that a lot of people, when they're in relationships with me, gain a lot from me. I've been a lot of people's therapists. I've sat and helped them through a lot of things. Lot of men are approaching me so they can have that transformative experience that helps them understand something about themselves. And over the years, I've just learned how little that serves me. I'm very like I love taking care of my partner. It makes me very happy to have. Him, for example, walk into his apartment and feel, Oh, my God, you cleaned and like that gave me a sense of happiness like that. That's very fulfilling to me, but I probably wouldn't be doing that unless he wasn't already very invested in making me okay. You know, he makes me feel so safe and so loved and so taken care of that. I just want to make his life easier. It is a reciprocal sort of thing, and I hadn't had that in so many of my relationships before. So many of my relationships were just me giving and giving and giving. They might come here, you know, they'll walk past the picture that needs to be hung up, or the broken this, or the broken that, and they'll just go back to the bedroom so they can get what they want. They'll never, you know, it subtracts. You know that that was the feeling I was having a lot of times going on these dates and things. You know, I was giving and giving and giving and giving and giving and then nothing. And I had to realize that, because it's natural for me to be a nurturing person, it is natural for me to listen to the person who's venting. And Ting, and I had to catch myself doing that too. Like you have this pattern, you have this thing that you do, and it's not a bad part of your personality, but you don't need to give it to everyone. So my favorite thing to do now is just act like I don't know anything about nothing, but people don't know me. I'm like, I'm just stupid, you know? I'm just here to I don't know nothing, and then people someone will recognize me. And so you've changed my life. And I'm like, oh, fuck.

Ishik  21:21  

yeah, I gotta say that that is a tough one to believe that anyone could know anything about you and believe that you know nothing about nothing. 

Kat Blaque  21:29  

It's easier when I'm like, not sober.

Ishik  21:42  

You know, you mentioned having kind of found your way to exploring kink and BDSM more through one of your non monogamous relationships. Do you feel like that's something that you would not have found interest in or found your way to exploring had you not started dating polyamorously?

Kat Blaque  21:58  

Yes and no, I had some pretty traumatic experiences with kink and swing very early on in my life, which made me by the time I met my monogamous ex, basically like pretend I wanted nothing more than to act like I wasn't kinky, or that like I didn't do that sort of stuff. I didn't have that experience that was a part of my past. So I kind of retreated into this person I wasn't in order to, like, you know, like most people do, be successful in life. So I just changed a lot of who I was in order to fit into this really narrow box. And of course, when I met this guy who was from a conservative area, and he ran into me, someone who was, you know, Miss goody two shoes, he was into that, and then it kind of became this thing where I wasn't being honest with him, because I wasn't also I wasn't acknowledging my trauma. I was denying it. I was hiding it. I was so afraid to even talk to him about things that happened to me, victimized, you know, shit like that. And that was also a huge hurdle for me feeling safe and comfortable, expressing that I had a desire or that I had an interest in BDSM. It was similar to Polly in that, you know, when my experience was just abusive and terrible, I you can get this conclusion of, oh, that's just all it is. That's all it is. And I kind of had to really experience it in like, a real way in order to not feel that way. And something that I'm celebrating is that, like, Finally, now that I'm in like, a functional poly place, realized is that I'm kind of a slightly different person with each one of my partners, they're not the same, right? They don't all give me the same exact thing. And not only that, but like, they get something from me that's not like their other partners. And it's not even like this, like, weird competition thing. It's just a new nuance that we're both exploring together. Everything is so different with every one of my partners, I have different experiences. It tickles a different part of my brain, and it's actually helped me feel like a way more well rounded person, because in monogamy, there was this like sense that, like I just had to let go of things I wanted to do, you know, especially when it came to, like, BDSM and shit like that, I just had to, like, let go of that to be in this relationship with this person. It was like a false dichotomy of, I can't do this or be this person if I'm with this one person monogamously. Nathan was my first poly partner, my first BDSM partner. And when we first met, we didn't have a BDSM connection. We didn't do anything for, like, a whole month. We got to know each other. We got to understand each other. And it was very instrumental in me and understanding that I can say no, because that was my big trauma response is, unfortunately, I I have the fun response to trauma, and that led to a lot of not so amazing things. So he was able to educate me in a way that has been very, very important to me, which is one of the reasons why he's still one of my partners. And BDSM for me was one of the big, solid ways that I learned that I absolutely have the ability to say no. Knows a complete sentence as well. Maybe I would have gotten there without polyamory, but because I started both my poly journey and B because I basically was like, Look, we're not going to pretend anymore. You know, we've done that for years. You lived in you lived in the suburbs. You did the whole thing, girl, you did it. You know what it's like now and now, you know you don't want it. So I started my I'm going to pursue BDSM and I'm going to pursue polyamory life at the same time.

Genevieve  25:25  

Yeah. And it sounds like it was a season of a lot of change, because you said you were in a conservative suburban area, yeah. 

Kat Blaque  25:32  

Um, pretty much all the men who were attracted to me or interested in me were white conservative men, so I have decent history dating white conservative men, not anymore. Don't do that. No more. I don't do that to myself anymore. Love myself a bit too much. But unfortunately, because I was raised in a very conservative area, and because, like that, part of my brain still exists, I have a habit of getting along with white conservative men very easily. And so sometimes I have to catch myself when I'm like, relating very well to someone is like, sometimes that's a bad sign. Um, you know, it's like a lot of more conservative suburban areas where their version of poly is probably more swingy than not, you know. And so that's mostly what I would run into, like consciously polyamorous people, or people saying they're polyamorous, it's more swingy than it is polyamory,

Ishik  26:22  

for the sake of anyone who's like particularly new or anything. How would you kind of characterize the difference between swinging and polyamory? Well,

Kat Blaque  26:31  

I have so much to say about the swing community, but the general difference, I will say, is that in swing community, you have a lot of people who are interested in having sex with others but are not necessarily interested in having multiple loving relationships. So their version of non monogamy is we're going to have sex with other couples in these closed spaces where we don't really associate beyond that really, that's it. It's a sex party. But like more focused on couples interacting with each other.

Genevieve  27:01  

Do you still go to swinger events at all?

Kat Blaque  27:02  

I do. I go to the swinger event for, like, the buffet. I don't know. I'm a weirdo, so I go to events and I don't do anything. I just socialize, because there's something that I still really enjoy, especially about the people sometimes at swinger events. It's also fascinating people watching and frankly, I do enjoy practicing saying no. You know, as a person who doesn't fuck at these parties, I've had to tell a lot of people don't touch me. You know, like you can't. Just because I'm here doesn't mean I want to be touched. I often will have people kind of pressure me and, you know, get kind of aggressive about it, and it, it doesn't always end up being a good vibe. Um, so part of, I think what I get sometimes out of going to swinger events is saying no, but I'm mostly familiar with, like, the heterosexual swing world, lots of toxicity in there, if you are paying attention. A lot of that world is very centered on, let's get two women to come together, but like only for the pleasure of men, and that is the closest you will get to like an active celebration of queer sex within these spaces. That is the thing that always makes me kind of sad, because sometimes you'll see you'll meet two women who get along with each other and are maybe interested in each other, but because those women don't play to the attraction of the man in the scenario, they won't go for it, and that's what frustrates me. Sometimes, even in conversations where the sex is in theory, excluding men, they still have to think about in center men.

Genevieve  28:33  

I've only been to a couple of events like that, and experienced similar to what you're describing. If I was connecting because I am bi if I was connecting with a woman, just a dude kind of showing up, and I'm like, Can Can I help you? Yeah, I'm talking to this cute girl. Like, why are you now assumed to be involved? Because

Kat Blaque  28:50  

I always have to be, and that, for me is like the insidiousness of like, the lesbophobia, the biphobia in these spaces. But one of the things that's also very common is they outright say, like, No man on man interactions, really? Yeah, yeah. You know it's they won't say no, no gay shit on the fire. But if you go on their pages and you look at the rules, it'll be like, one of the rules that says, you know, we are specifically catering to this dynamic, and so a lot of spaces will outright say, like, we don't want men having sex with men, because it's all about selling to heterosexual men, who, frankly, do not want to see that. Because economically, the way they set it up is, you know, men pay a lot of money to gain access to women who are open to having sex. And if you are a woman who goes to these things, especially if they're the sort of events where you get in for free, you will get hounded. And so, you know, it does create a certain environment. I discovered that it's really about finding the right parties that are actually, like inclusive. My favorite parties are the ones where everyone pays the same price.

Ishik  29:53  

You know, I'll say for myself, personally based on kind of exactly what you're describing about, specifically misogynistic pressure. And expectation is why I kind of have a blanket rule of not going to any event that has gender tiered pricing. It's never the vibe. Yeah, it's never the vibe. 

Genevieve  30:11  

100% and I know some trans people who like, with gender tiered pricing. If they get misgendered at the door, either they're not welcome at all, or it affects what they have to pay. And it's just so fucked up. It's like, Who's Who's judging that, you know? And so, yeah, I guess I could extend that to you. I'm curious, being a trans woman going to those kind of parties, like, has that kind of scrutiny or transphobia ever shown in that way?

Kat Blaque  30:37  

Because I pass in quotations. I'm able to go to these parties because I look a certain way, right? If I were not, if I looked more masculine, if I were non binary, or something that would then become more complicated. And that's the thing, an event that has gendered pricing is always going to be committed to some degree of heterosexism. It's a red flag. 

Genevieve  31:00  

You know, one thing I was curious about, because you're a straight woman, and these parties women are expected to hook up with other women. Do you ever have to remind people that you're not into that?

Kat Blaque  31:11  

In general, this is, this is kind of issue that I have in the poly community too. People do often think it's very strange that I'm straight. They're always like really, and to their credit, I am one of the few straight women that I know in the volleys committee. So, like, it's not necessarily a uncommon thing for women to be by in these spaces, but I'm not. And so often the conversations are, are you sure? Are you sure? Well, maybe if I did this, well, is it okay if I just did that, like, maybe if I just played with your boobs or whatever, and it's like, I know that that's not the way I work, you know. And I one aspect of, like, the traumatic shit that I experienced when I was younger in the swing scene is that I had had several situations where women just included themselves. That's always been a pretty strong line for me, and I do kind of hate having those arguments with people, because they often are arguments because it's always like, well, you just haven't had the right girl. And it's like, no, it's really not that. It's really not that there are plenty of people who have yet to explore their sexuality, who do not yet know, because of, you know, compulsive heterosexuality haven't quite unpacked the their bisexual I'm just certainly not one of them. If I could stop dating men, I probably would. It's been an overall frustrating experience. 

Genevieve  32:33  

Yeah, it's wild how that language mirrors what so many queer people hear from their like homophobic family. Are you sure you just haven't met the right, you know, person of the opposite sex yet, and that, and just the ways that, if we aren't thinking critically, we can just fall back into, like, repeating those same cycles and doing to each other what we don't want done to us. Yeah, yeah. Ideally you don't need to be defending your heterosexuality. That's such a weird thing. Yeah. Just believe, believe her take no for an answer.

Kat Blaque  33:01  

It is weird, because then it makes me feel like kind of odd too, because I don't want to start being like, Oh my God. People are attacking me because I'm straight. 

Ishik  33:22  

You've already touched a little bit on kind of some of the experience of being a black woman in predominantly white spaces and being a trans woman in spaces dominated by like cis people. Can you share a bit about how that has intersected with your exploration of non monogamy, both in any good or bad ways, or just whatever your experience has been.

Kat Blaque  33:43  

So for me, personally, living in Los Angeles, it is one of the most diverse places I have ever lived. The poly community is mostly pretty white. Most of the spaces that are like centered around poly are going to be mostly white people, and the men who tend to approach me are white men. I grew up in a predominantly Chinese American community, surprisingly, and so I was not actually very used to being around a lot of white people until I moved to Valencia, and then I was in Orange County for years, right? And that's when I started interacting with like, people who were, in my experience, racist, who wanted to date me, but in Orange County, it was a little bit more obvious, because a lot of those people are conservatives, right in LA what I've experienced quite a bit. People are still coming into polyamory, and maybe they're still adjusting, like a lot of people who moved to Los Angeles, moved to Los Angeles and have their first ever experience and interaction with a black person, right? So they're still processing their anti blackness, and for them, sometimes, part of that is trying to date somebody like me. I've been a lot of men's first, first trans woman, first black woman, and like they will. Often see me as intriguing and exotic and different, and they will mostly be interested in dating me during a time where they already have a primary partner who presents to the world this idyllic image that society expects them to uphold. So I've been in a lot of relationships where, like I am, the interesting, black, curvy, trans person that they are having an exotic type of relationship with. Meanwhile, they have a partner who they are willing to present to the world, who is often white, often but not always thin, and subscribes to a certain degree of femininity. I'll just say they're polyamorous for me, right? Like they'll, if they're with me, they're polyamorous, but if they meet that idyllic white woman who says, I don't want you to be with anyone else, they'll, they'll be willing to be monogamous for them, it can fuck with your brain a little bit. I had a situation where I went into the quarantine in a relationship with a man who was white, and he is married and had children and things like that. And before our relationship, before quarantine and everything, everything was pretty chill. You know, we was working out pretty good. He was the first partner that I dated who also took, like, a really big interest in, like, helping me out and supporting me in different things. But when he started becoming concerned about fascism, because he's Jewish as well, he decided that he was going to take his entire family and flee the country, and his exit plan did not include me. That he was excited about being in proximity to my black trans body, but had no real desire in protecting it in any real way, because when fascism does come, I'm going to be the test dummy long before it gets to him. It it hurt to understand that I was not going to be considered for protection at all. I was on my own. 

Ishik  36:59  

Yeah, it's really pretty upsetting. Yeah, I can't even really imagine being in your shoes in that situation, but it is incredibly dehumanizing. Maybe I don't know, yeah,

Kat Blaque  37:09  

well, it did feel dehumanizing. It felt like, so what are we doing? Then, you know, because we were like, fluid bonded. And for me, that's a big deal. It's not just, oh my god. I don't just have unprotected sex with people. I fluid bonded with him because I felt close and that I can trust him. So then I was like, okay, so I had this situation with this person who didn't really ever prioritize me, who ultimately like, Yeah, we were on dates and all that stuff, and yeah, a lot of people knew that we were together. Oh, another layer of this particular guy is I ended up defending him a lot because certain people didn't like him, and I spent so much time sticking my neck out for him, and in retrospect, I probably should have listened to those people a little bit. Those people were probably trying to warn me, because I know right now, you know, all of my partners, we're fucking living out the apocalypse together like we know that. And that's something that, even though it seems kind of extreme, that's sort of the line for me. You know, I don't, I have no interest in being in relationships that are like fun. I'm just gonna have, you know, this little moment with you, because you're exotic sort of things. And I can't trust that these men feel differently, unless they show me, frankly, my primary partner, he's Mexican and Palestinian, right? He's got a lot of understanding of being a person of color that comes through. I know that he's not viewing me that way. I know that he's not looking at me as like, this exotic, you know, different thing, because for both people of color, he's dated many he's dated black women before me. It's not exciting or new or interesting or different, and frankly, I don't have the anxieties that I've had with previous partners with him. Like I used to have a lot of anxiety about my partners one day being like, I can't be with you because I met somebody, because that was such a common pattern of the men that I've dated. And it is hard for me not to think that that relates to my history being mostly with white men. I was so used to being deprioritized by partners that maybe that's why I was like, I shouldn't have a primary maybe, in a way, because of who I was dating, I thought I couldn't ask for a primary partnership. I don't have that concern anymore, because my partners are all very clear about what our relationship is what we're doing in our relationship, and I've never felt more prioritized by a partner. I'm happy to be in a very functional portion of poly, and that's a big reason why I haven't really dated new people, even though I technically have space for it, dealing with white supremacy, dealing with transphobia, you can very easily get to the point where you think it's me, it's me, it's me, it's me, it's my fault. I need to change. It's, you know, and not that there aren't things that I've had to change that I you know. So I'm not saying, oh my god, like never criticize yourself, but a lot of times it has nothing to do with you. It's nothing to do with you. It has everything to do with someone else. And. I've definitely made the mistake of putting it on me in situations where I should have just not I should have been more clear, like, I should have been more aware of how much it wasn't actually serving me to know that, like, this isn't even something I should be entertaining to begin with. I think my my my self esteem is a lot higher than it used to be.

Ishik  40:21  

You know, what I'm hearing so much of is this idea of kind of valuing yourself and your time and your energy, and it kind of feels like there's actually been a lot of that, even going back to the vibe invents, go where you're appreciated, and go where there are people around you who are going to see your value, who are going to appreciate your value? Who are going to support you, where you're going to have an interdependence of love and care and community? 

Kat Blaque  40:50  

Yeah, I've had to develop a sense of I'm valuable. You know, I'm valuable. My body is valuable, my time is valuable, my mind is valuable, and I should give that to men who have value to me, you know. And so I've recognized that, and just started to respect that I have power, and I need to recognize that, and, like, not give it to too many people,

Genevieve  41:16  

yeah, looking for the reciprocity like you were saying, like, even from the small things of them showing up when they say they will, but also the bigger things of living out the apocalypse together. Okay, I mean, I think so lovely. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. We'd love to invite you to plug any of your work, your upcoming projects, where can people find you online?

Kat Blaque  41:41  

Yeah, so the best place to start to find me is Cat black on YouTube. That's K, A, T, B L, A, Q, U, E, youtube.com/cat, black. I also have a side channel called movies in my closet, and my website is black in the city.com. That's B L, A Q E in the city.com. I'm also on tick tock, um, I've been tickety talking with the kids over on there. So. Cat, black, on tick tock, you should be able to find me. 

Ishik  42:08  

Yeah, we tic tac toe. A winner. No.

Kat Blaque  42:12  

Tic Tac Toe.

Ishik  42:14  

Tic Tac Toe. A winner.

Kat Blaque  42:17  

oh my gosh.

Ishik  42:21  

Anyways, if you are as always looking for more specifically polyamory content, Genevieve is also on Tiktok and Instagram at chill polyamory. We've also recently launched her YouTube channel where she discusses representations of non monogamy in film, TV and other media. 

Kat Blaque  42:41

Ooh, how exciting!

Genevieve  42:42  

Yeah, yeah, I'm just actually launching it this week, the week that we're recording. So you can support us directly on Patreon to help fund all of these projects. Patrons also get a bunch of bonus written and video resources, along with advanced access to a lot of my private content, personal stories, one on one. Support and so if you're looking for additional help with navigating your own non monogamy, you can learn more@chillpolyamory.com

Ishik  43:05  

that's C, H, I, L, L, P, o, l, y, A, M, O, R, y.com, I'm learning from a champion learning you spell it out. 

Genevieve  43:15  

Okay, well, thank you so much. We will continue to watch you on all of your platforms. Yeah, we're so excited to share your story with everybody.

Genevieve  43:35  

If you like the show and want to support us, you can rate and review it on Spotify and Apple podcasts. It really helps new people find us as well. If you want to financially help out, this show is mostly funded by patreon.com/chill polyamory.