Music

Genevieve  0:00 

Welcome to I Could Never, a podcast about non monogamy and the many ways it can look. I'm Genevieve from Chill Polyamory on Instagram, Tiktok and YouTube, and I'm joined by my co host and partner, Ishik.

Ishik  0:18  

Actually, today I am Ishik’s evil twin fish stick, and now you are starting to hear our wonderful guests. I am very happy to welcome two people with an absolutely lovely relationship. They are the hosts of our relationship pod with Emmy and Ify, where they dive into Reddit relationship mess. And he's also an actor, writer, stand up, comedian and the host of um actually on dropout, please welcome Emily Louise and Ify Nwadiwe,

Emily Louise  0:49  

hello. I almost waved. 

Ify Nwadiwe 0:52

Well, they'll know. They'll feel the energy of a wave. Feel it. 

Ishik  0:55  

I feel it. Amazing. But before we get into talking with them anymore, we have another guest with us here today, a dark passenger whose long journey began in the far outer planes of existence, they have climbed through the countless layers of the Abyss, the half human, half demon, abyssal tiefling that is Vibe or Vent.

Genevieve  1:13  

Vibe or vent time! For anyone listening for the first time, we always like to start the show off with a little icebreaker called Vibe or vent, where we'll each take a beat to share a bit about something that's either making us happy recently or something that sucks that we need to vent about and get off our chests. So, ishik, would you like to start us out?

Ishik  1:32  

Sure, sure. So I don't know, we fell down a rabbit hole the other day, and we were looking into like SNL, like old SNL clips from like, you know, the 90s SNL cast talking about the worst guests, and specifically, they were talking about Steven Seagal and how appalling he was as a guest. And so I spent quite a while finding the full episode, because they have tried desperately to scrub this from the internet. It was so bad.

Genevieve  1:59  

So good, how bad it was.

Ify Nwadiwe  2:03  

I know there's, like, an interesting aspect when you have that, guess you're kind of beholden to what their comedic sensibilities are like. Oh, it was this person that kind of ruined it, and it wasn't necessarily how bad SNL was.

Ishik  2:19  

His opening monologue was him doing, like a spoken word version of kung fu fighting. 

Genevieve  2:25  

Like every sketch was him punching people or throwing them out of a window. 

Ishik  2:30  

Yeah, that was a gem. That was fun. It was fun, though. Anyways, I would love to throw it over to either of you. Why don't we start with, uh, Emily, Emily, are you vibing or venting today? 

Emily Louise  2:39  

Oh, I think I'm vibing, because it is almost snowboard season here, and we are excited. Oh yeah, when we started dating, he's like, Oh, I think we should go snowboarding. And I'm like, that's a wild thing to get back into in your mid 30s. But okay, and now we've been doing it every season, and I am I have a wish list of things I'd like to be good at this year and practice without killing myself. Basically, I'm excited for that, so I guess we're both vibing about snowboarding, yeah.

Ishik  3:09  

I mean, well, do you want to? Do you want to own that as your vibe you're driving? You want to vibe or vent on your own? What would you.

Ify Nwadiwe  3:16  

Yeah, I think I'm gonna vibe on, uh, Magic Con. So we just came back from Vegas where, Magic the Gathering for clarity. I feel like if people aren't nerdy, they're like, You mean, like, Criss Angel Magic? I'm like, No, I mean, Sarah's Angel. We go to those events, and it's like people who are fans of our podcast, people have been thanking me for being openly polyamorous, and it was real fun seeing a bunch of cool, nerdy, polyamorous people coming up. And there were a lot of people who was like, I'm here with my husband and boyfriend, my boyfriend situation. I'm like, Hey, you ain't got to explain nothing to me. I'm just happy you're happy.

Ishik  3:54  

Very cool way to be, you know, like our representative and out in these nerdy streets. Genevieve, what have you? What have you got today? 

Genevieve  4:04  

I'm also vibing today. It's an all vibe day. So last week I went to smut slam Berlin, and I was actually a judge. I was asked to be a judge. And what it is, it's an open mic, slutty storytelling. And the theme was called blood and guts. So it was everyone's like, awkward, gory, messy stories. And it was just really sweet, because everyone was pretty, like, kind of wholesome, and they were coming up, and they were shy, but then they were saying the nastiest things. So it was just a really heartwarming, pretty cute night, and it's still sticking with me, but this show is all about you today, and we'd love to know a little bit more about both of you, so we typically start by hearing a bit about how your relationship started out, or how your relationships looks. And since we have both of you today, love to learn how you met, and we're both of you non monogamous in the beginning together?

Ify Nwadiwe  5:01  

We were both ethically non monogamous before dating. We this was, like, almost three years ago. At this point, M followed me on Instagram, and I was I followed her back immediately because she was hot. Obviously, that's how that works.

Emily Louise  5:16  

Well and I was going through a breakup. And the reason I started following you is because my brother really likes game changer. And he's like, Oh, I think this would probably, like, help your mood and stuff. And I was like, Who is this, man.

Ify Nwadiwe  5:26  

Yeah. And she posted a story where she was like, drinking out of these, like, unique wine, like champagne glasses. And I was like, Oh, I would love to drink champagne out of that one day. And then she was like, Okay, well, then I guess we should schedule a time, and then we set up a date, and that was all history from there.

Emily Louise  5:45  

It's so funny because I can, like, remember it very vividly, because you were like, um, so I'm polyamorous. Are you cool with that? Which is an insane way to bring that up, yeah.

Ify Nwadiwe  5:58  

Yeah, I was, I was just like, I gotta get I think it's because I just already knew I, like, liked you more than just, like, the first night, like, after dinner. I think we kind of it was like, oh, okay, yeah. And so I was like, Well, I can't allow myself to fall I already am at the cliff's edge because my therapist said that I couldn't date any more monogamous people, because that's how my last two relationships imploded. So, like, I very upfront, like, told you that that's what the deal was. 

Emily Louise  6:30  

But I will say at that point I was like, I am not polyamorous. The feelings part with other people is the part that is feels too hard for me, and I don't want to do that. And so we did start our relationship as ethically non monogamous, not polyamorous, yeah.

Ify Nwadiwe  6:44  

Yeah. I guess, like, yeah. The distinction was that there was, you know, an expiration date on most of the like, I feel like at the if we were just on the pure, ethical, non monogamous side, like, it would be, like, maybe you hook up with someone once or twice, and then after that, you go your separate ways, and that's like discussed up front, so everyone knows what's going on. The thing about, you know, ethical non monogamy and polyamory is things always shift and change. And it just so happened that there was someone who, I guess, was great, and it just felt like it was naturally shifting into something more than casual. And so me and em had conversations about it, and then me and that person had conversations about it. Since then, there's been just communication between me and them, me and em, and that helped the transition immensely, because they are just as you know, involved, just as, like, concerned with, like, M's fillings and making sure that you know she feels secure and respected in it.

Emily Louise  7:46  

Yeah, and that, and checks in with you. But also we have separate chats together. Like, hey, like we're talking about this thing, like we're all going to this event together. Like, how do we feel? What do we want the vibe to be today? Like, how are we all feeling about the whole situation? Like, friendship or otherwise, yeah.

Ishik  8:00  

Are you also friends with her? Or would you say that that's not necessarily the way you would characterize the relationship? 

Emily Louise  8:06  

No, I would say we're friends. Yeah, when we go out to do stuff together, we wear matching shoes, huh? That's very adorable, which I don't know if that's peak girl friendship, but it feels kind of like it.

Ishik  8:17  

When the expectation had been just kind of like casual hookups, or like, friend hookups. And then now it's like, actually, I'm feeling a bigger way about this. Like, em, like, was that a hard conversation to have? Like, what was that like for you coming to that?

Emily Louise  8:32  

I when we started talking about being, like, full polyamorous, you know, I was like, sort of nervous because it happened because of a specific person, which I think is kind of like the hardest thing to deal with, and like, Okay, you were fine with this before, and now it's changing, and it's because of this person, and that feels mildly threatening. And then, you know, as we started talking through it, it's like, oh, I want both of us to be living the life that we want to live. We're exploring. And like this is just helping me realize, like, who I am, and like this is how I'm feeling, and because if he was checking in with me about how he was feeling about his other relationship, it sort of like eased the natural progression of what was going on, even in my own brain, working through all past relationship trauma of being lied to about what was actually going on. So then I'm like, Okay, I trust Ify, and I know that, like, I know if you're telling me this, I know it's true. I don't have to worry. Like, oh, do I think you're only telling me half of it, or whatever? I'm like, okay, I can take you at face value, and that makes me feel safe in whatever we're talking about.

Ify Nwadiwe  9:35  

You know, all of this is about trust, right? Being cognizant of what M is coming into this relationship with and knowing that a lot of it has been burned trust being kept in the dark, and that naturally made her have this aversion, you know, to polyamory, because it's like if even on this kind of like, smaller scale, you. Where there isn't an attachment and there isn't deeper feelings, then how can I not trust you to say that you're going to enter polyamory and then kind of break away and choose someone else and leave me hanging? I think the best way to combat that is to give as much information as possible, to check in as much as possible, so that she knows everything that's going on in my head and heart, and you know, if anything's changing, you're getting it right away, so that you can, you know, know that is.

Genevieve  10:35  

Is it ever hard to explain your relationship changes to the other people in your life, like the monogamous people in your life, and I know you're both also public figures, so maybe that's an element as well. But yeah, like, what kind of reactions have you gotten when you tell people about your relationship?

Ishik  10:51  

Yeah, especially like the monogamous people in your life,

Emily Louise  10:54  

I will say, I think the thing that we deal with the most assuming that one of us is cheating. I've had people like, DM me and be like, Hey, I saw that. If he's posting this other person like, how do you feel about that? I'm like, first of all, I don't know you. Yeah. And also, like, it's crazy to think that you think we didn't talk about it first, I know, yeah. 

Ishik  11:15  

And then there's always that question of, like, you know, what does this person even think cheating is?

Ify Nwadiwe  11:21  

My big monogamy speech that I love to say? And every time I go on a podcast, I do it, I talk about when I was at a certain large YouTube conglomerate company that has a bunch of videos like they get a lot of buzz on the feed. I was in an erg group, employee resource groups, and usually it's like all the queer people, all the black people, yada yada yada. And it was the black people group, and we were talking about, like, emotional cheating. I was the only person in that group that was polyamorous. And so between all these monogamous people and me, there was a conversation about what constitutes as cheating, and we had answers that range from if you even go to dinner with the opposite sex and you don't tell me you've cheated, all the way to as long as you don't have penetrative sex, it's not cheating. And all these people are say they're monogamous. And I think the problem there is like none of them are wrong. You know, if those are your boundaries, those are your boundaries, and that's the where your monogamy lies. But the problem is, is that any two people in that group could have dated each other and would have an explosive fight because they didn't talk about what their monogamy looks like. They would not feel the need to talk about it, because there's like, oh, you know what monogamy is. Everyone knows what monogamy is. We understand societally what monogamy is, and we are in a monogamous relationship, and there's like, Well, why did you make out with someone at a party? Was like, well, because I didn't bang them. And it was like, What are you talking about? So that's it's very interesting to me, just that aspect of it.

Genevieve  12:55  

You know, on the topic of cheating, you know, sometimes there's this misconception that you can't cheat in polyamory. And earlier, you mentioned being aware that M was coming into the relationship with some burned trust and maybe some experience with lying in non monogamy. You know m, to the extent you're comfortable, I'm curious like, Would you be down to share? 

Ify Nwadiwe  13:17  

Drag his ass.

Ishik  13:19  

Drag his ass. Drag his ass. What happened?

Emily Louise  13:21  

Oh, with which one, but I'll start with the one that I feel like is the most egregious. Okay, when I lived in Chicago, that was the first time I lived with someone who I was non monogamous with, it was like, Okay, so like, what does this kind of look like for us, and we definitely weren't talking about it enough, but it felt good, and it didn't feel like we were missing things come to find out I absolutely was. But, you know, we had sort of set rules, like we would frequent places together, and it was like, Do not hook up with people who we see all the time at these bars we're going to at places we go to, which he immediately started doing. And the way I found out is he would like, pick up shifts at this bar because he was in law school. And so I would go visit him when he was like, working at the bar, and I was sitting next to this girl who always would just like, look at me and never say anything, but like, very clearly in the group of friends that I am also in, and I looked down and on her phone, she is texting him, and is like, This is so awkward. And he replied back with, it's fine. She doesn't know what the right in front of you. And like, she's sitting actively next to me. So like, you see where she's at. And so I went through this man's phone because I'm like, Oh, well, you're clearly doing something you're not supposed to. And I found out that he was leaving for work hours early and go to her house before work. And like, if you were like, Hey, I know we have this rule, but like, I'm kind of into this person. Person, like, how would you feel if we did a trial run? And, like, if you feel a type of way about it, we can, like, rediscuss or whatever. I would have been like, great. That sounds fine. You're communicating with me. I know what's going on. Like, go for it. And he just did absolutely none of that, not telling me, actively lying about it when I confronted him, and then also continuing to, like, go hook up after I have this confrontation. Was wild.

Ishik  15:23  

Yeah, it's, it is one of those things of, like, when you don't have to, I mean, I think we, whenever we talk about it, it's always, like, the same reason why people cheat in the first place. People always think it's about sex, but I think it's often more about, like, control, yeah, 100% and power and stuff like that, and feeling, you know, something that makes you feel good about yourself. So it isn't surprising that it still happens. I'm just like, why?

Genevieve  15:48  

What really resonates is like, we could have talked about this. We could have, if you don't want this agreement anymore, let's talk about it, you know. And it sounds like that's what the two of you did. It's like, oh, you know, I know where open relationship and this person has happened to me, let's talk about it, right? So I love that flexibility, because we do kind of have to roll with what happens to us a bit, but we always talk about it first before doing anything about it. That's that's usually what I tell people who come to me and they're like, you know, oh, I agreed to this. But what do I do? I either just suppress it, stuff it down and start resenting the person, or I just cheat. And I was like, What about a third option of a discussion?

Music

Genevieve  16:04  

Ify you've talked before in your stand up about being Nigerian, specifically your Igbo heritage. And I know in some regions there's still a tradition of polygamy amongst Igbo people. You know, is that a part of your family's story too? Is that? Is that something you saw growing up?

Ify Nwadiwe  16:52  

That's so interesting, and you hit the nail on the head my that's my tribe, Igbo. And I didn't, I knew, like it was kind of just said in a very throw away way, always like, Oh yeah, your your grandma is like, you know, the youngest was the youngest wife and and it was just kind of said matter of factly, never investigated because no explanation, no explanation, just a family photo that looked like a soccer team photo. And and, just, like, yep, that's, that's, that's, that's Grandma, that's the other wife, that's my brothers, that's my brothers with the other wife. Like, just like, so, like, it was very interesting, but there was no, like, real insight into it, and I think there wasn't that, because my dad grew up Catholic, and then I went to Catholic school, so, you know, we're repressing everything in those pews. So, but yeah, it really is like there wasn't a culture about talking about the relationships. It just kind of was.

Ishik  17:53  

So like, having that, I mean, even though it wasn't talked about at all, it was just sort of this matter of fact statement of like, yep, that's the the other wife, or whatever. Did that do you feel like that was like something stuck in your head from a young age, seeing those kinds of photos and hearing that that, like, opened you up more to the idea of non monogamy, or is that just like totally ancient history, something wasn't even in your mind until later, when you're like, oh shit, wait a minute.

Ify Nwadiwe  18:17  

So one of the things when I was trying to, like, normalize it in my head not make it less scary for me, was I remember that my granddad, you know, was in this polygamous relationship. I was and then I started going, oh, you know, I do think it's something that I've always had. And it was for me when I realized I was polyamorous or honestly acknowledged it. It was like a usual suspects moment. And I've said this on the pods, that this isn't like, you know, big information, but the reason my marriage ended was I learned that I was polyamorous during the marriage, a lot of things happened. We tried it out. It didn't work. It didn't end because of the polyamory people don't realize. And I do have a theory that this is actually what happens is once you start that flow of things that you've always wanted to talk about, that you might not have brought up, and all these kind of skeletons in the closet, and sometimes in that deluge, you learn that your values don't align and you don't actually want the same things, the nail in the coffin, so to speak. Yeah, because I wouldn't even call it a nail, because I think the period in which we were both dating other people, it was great. And it was the thing that proved to me that it can work. It was great. We were talking all the time. It was great. The only problem was that she wasn't actually into it. And I think this is exactly what's out of sight. I think we should call it here, while we still love each other and we're friends and can raise a child together, than to try and force it end up resenting each other and have an animosity and have our daughter be in the in a in a stuck in between them. And so that's one thing I just definitely didn't want to do. And. I think that it's great. We're like, good friends. We're we are a support system for each other, the bond and the community and the support is much stronger than if we were sitting there hating each other, resenting each other, trying to force a relationship that was not going to work to happen.

Genevieve  20:16  

Yeah? Because I do think it's true, sometimes adding distance will keep that person in your life, yeah.

Ishik  20:22  

Yes. So what was like the thing that kind of set off the desire to want to explore non monogamy in your marriage? 

Ify Nwadiwe  20:30  

Yeah, it was, I think what had happened was, what genuinely happened was, when I was in this marriage, I was very happy. I had a daughter, I was I, I was good, I was happy, and then I started developing a crush. And in the past, I feel like in past relationships, that happens, and I go, Oh, I must not be into this relationship anymore. Let me just self sabotage and then pursue this new crush. Vice versa. And in this case, you know, marriage is a legally binding contract. You can't really crash out like that. You have to really, it forces you to, like, investigate that. And I just had to acknowledge, like, oh yeah, no, I am in love with my wife, and I have a crush on this person and and it's what's funny is, like, I think that's just natural, even kind of for monogamous people, that's gonna happen. 

Emily Louise  21:24  

Definitely that's, I feel like, that's where that Hall Pass comes from. 

Ify Nwadiwe  21:27  

Yeah, I think that, you know, but, but it made me investigate, and I thought through, like, past relationships, and that's when I kind of noticed the, the crash out pattern. And then I, um, I think the first time I had this, like epiphany, I was about to go to sleep, it hits me. And then I turned to my wife at the time and said, Hey, I think I'm polyamorous. And she's like, Well, what do you think that means? I was like, I don't know. I just want to, want you to know, because we're married, you're someone I love. You should you should know? And she was like, Okay, does this mean we're opening up the road? I was like that, nope, I don't want to do anything. I just wanted you to have this info. And she was like, Okay, well, I think the best thing we do is open up. I was like, okay, cool. Let's open it up and you find some money and go. Because I'm like, if I can do that, then I know. And she goes, gets a date, comes back, tells me about it. And I was like, hell, yeah, that's dope. We're some sluts that rocks. And that's when I knew, like, that's it. And so I'm like, talking to my friends about and they're like, Okay, I am, like, the weirdo of the group in this group, but they asked so many questions, yeah? And I and I'm like, Yeah, and I was kind of telling this, and they're like, Okay, yeah, okay. But is your wife sleeping with people? It's like, yeah, and you're not mad. 

Emily Louise  22:44  

I was like, which is crazy to me, because they also, as soon as we started dating, they were like, Yeah, but what happens when Emily sleeps with someone else? We talked about this already, bro.

Ify Nwadiwe  22:52  

Oh yeah. It's, I think there's still like a disbelief, like they're like, oh, he ain't. Because I remember when this friend, this friend was a lady, and we would just hook up, but we had no interest in dating each other. We're just we would just talk through shit. We'd hook up sometimes, and then I remember they would just like, Nah, they she secretly wants to date you. She see like they couldn't wrap their arms around having a friend that you just kind of have platonic sex with. I guess it was great, but I remember they just couldn't wrap their heads around it at this point. I've been polyamorous for 10 years, so like, like, they just have no choice but to be like, either he this is the best bit we've ever seen.

Emily Louise  23:34  

Well, and I think it's also like not to take any digs at anybody else, but I think that they see how our relationship works, and then how they see that it didn't change at all with all these different things happening, and they're like, Oh, we understand why your relationship works for you guys.

Ify Nwadiwe  23:53  

I think, yeah, definitely. I have great friends in monogamous relationships who, and usually there are people who have had polyamorous relationships in the past who have great communication, but I have a lot of friends in monogamous relationship where there's just no communication, and you only communicate when there's an issue, and it's like, well, you know, you could have avoided that issue if there was communication. And it's just because talking is scary, like, I don't think it's because there's this, like, disinterest in it. I think that it's, you know, we and it's in media. It's in everything we say. And on a societal level, the conversation of, if there needs to be a discussion, there's a problem, you know, if you need to go to therapy, something's wrong, and it's like, no, it's like, you can just be doing maintenance. You can just be talking, just to make sure everyone's in on it. And once you get past, like, the hard conversations around polyamorous because I think the hardest conversation, hardest conversation anyone can fathom is talking to your partner about sleeping with someone else. 

Emily Louise  24:46  

Oh, no. It's talking to your partner about your partner loving somebody else.

Ify Nwadiwe  24:52  

That too. Like, like, I think that's the hardest part, yeah. And I think once you can get past that, you can talk about anything.

Ishik  24:58  

Yeah, I mean, and I know that I think at one point you've said that, like something along the lines of, it's hard to find new ways to tell people to just talk to each other more, right? Yes, and I think I know it can feel pretty simple to say something like that. I know that we kind of have communicated that to each other as well when there's a lot of years of practice in this. But like, do you feel like there is something that gets you from that point earlier on in your experience where it's hard to have those kinds of conversations to the place you are now? Like, is there something that has not, maybe necessarily been like a magic bullet. But what's the, what's the secret sauce for the people? In your opinion? Yeah, how do you just talk about it? How do you just talk about it, right? Like, how do you train that muscle?

Emily Louise  25:48  

For me? I have anxiety. I realized that thinking about having to have the conversation and just being like, Well, I'm just not gonna say anything about it. And then the anxiety that builds in my brain thinking about 8 million scenarios is so much worse than the anxiety of being like this is how I feel about this thing, and I'd really like to talk about it, because the first anxiety lives in my brain for weeks, if not forever, and this one goes away as soon as the conversation is done, and knowing that, like, Yeah, this is scary right now, but as soon as I say it, I'm gonna feel better, is a hard thing to learn how to do, but once you do it multiple times and get, like, used to it, and know that the person you're talking to understands why you're talking about it, like, understands that this is Something this person cares about. And I also want to help with this anxiety. It just makes it so much easier. 

Ify Nwadiwe  26:47  

Yeah, mine was gonna be kind of like a different version of that, but just the building the habit doing it for the smaller things that don't seem like they necessarily need to be talked about, right? And I think changing the perspective into like, this is just a conversation. This is just, we can work through anything together, and we will work through this if this is a big deal, but this is just how we're talking through things. And then I think when you are doing little things, because usually that's how the big things happen, is tiny little things where it's like, hey, maybe, though, what you spoke to me this this time I didn't really like.

Emily Louise  27:21  

That happened this weekend where I was saying something to you, and then, like, later you were like, Hey, this is how this made me feel. And it's not a big deal right now, but I noticed it's happened twice, and I want to talk about that.

Ify Nwadiwe  27:33  

Yeah. And sometimes it's as simple as, like, being like, well, I know it's probably in my head, I'm not gonna say anything. And it keeps happening, keeps happening, keeps happening, keeps happening. And then you're just like, you're blowing up on them. And you're like, you always do this. And because that person doesn't have that same weight to that, they're looking at you like, what do you mean? I always do this. This is literally the first time you've ever said anything. Yeah, yeah. And now it feels like you're gaslighting me, because I've clocked all the times you're doing this, and you're saying you've never done this because you don't realize this is a thing. 

Emily Louise  28:03  

And sometimes you realize it's a little column A and a little column B, yeah, I will say the other thing that I think helps get used to communicating things that are hard to talk about is we will sit down and do a weekly check in. And I feel like having something like that allows you to bring up things without the context of this is about to be a fight, yeah, where it's like, Oh, hey, like, we're just doing a weekly check in. This is how this thing made me feel this week. And it doesn't even necessarily have to be about your relationship whatever, just overall, like, what your mental state is, like, how your anxiety is doing, like, whatever. And I think that really helps just open up communication for when things are harder, because you're already used to just doing a check in, even when things are good, yeah.

Ishik  28:43  

I mean, if I can ask, is there a specific example that's kind of coming in your mind, or?

Emily Louise  28:49  

Yeah, you want to tell them about the Austin thing?

Ify Nwadiwe  28:52  

Oh, yeah, yeah. That's so very early on in the relationship, when we first, kind of like, were official. We, I think, had different ideas of, like, how the check ins for, you know, hookups work. And I basically, most people want to talk about it, like you said, talk about it before it happens. And then I was kind of like, well, in the in the heat of things, we can talk about it after. And there was someone who I was hanging with, and and then I just, like, the My phone was dying, and it was all this stuff, and I like, hit up M and I was like, Oh yeah, the next day, the next day. And then I was like, Yeah, I hooked up with that person. You're like, Oh, that is not what we discussed. And I was like, huh? What do you mean? 

Emily Louise  29:41  

Also, before you were taking Adderall? I will say, yeah, yeah.

Ify Nwadiwe  29:44  

So there's, there's, there are other things that might have been in play there. But yeah, we got back and we talked about, and you were sure I was going to be gone. Oh yeah, I was a because so I'm, I'm used to attempting polyamory, and then the moment the person's done, they're gone. And with my ex wife, it was good until it wasn't. It was just a moment where she was like, I can't do this anymore. It's over, you know? And then I had a another monogamous relationship where polyamory was, quote, unquote, on the table, and then it was time to take it off the table. We had lots of discussions. There are lots of deers. And the moment it happened, I told him, she was like, Yep, I don't want to do it. It's over. Just multiple instances of people being like, Okay, let's try it. Okay, I'm not into it. So, yeah, I was.

Emily Louise  30:31  

You were like, I thought you weren't gonna be here. I'm like, What are you talking about? I'm mad at you. I'm not gonna break up with you. Yeah?

Ify Nwadiwe  30:36  

I was, yeah. I was like, I was, thought it was gonna come back. It was gonna be like, the finale of Fresh Prince of Bel Air, there was going to be nothing. I was like, All right, well, there it is, but yeah. And then we talked about, and we talked about what the miscommunication was, which was like me thinking it was like, you know, if you know that I'm talking to someone where there's a potentiality that then we can talk about it after, and then we kind of reset the boundaries so that it is before anything happens, there's a discussion and, you know, and I feel like it's now kind of evolved and shifted in life. 

Emily Louise  31:08  

Well, also, like, you were out with your other partner last night, and I went to the bar, and you were like, hey, just so you know, like, if you want to hook up with someone at this bar, like, you can just tell me tomorrow you don't need to check in with me tonight. Yeah. And I think I think I would have just done the same thing, like, Hey, I met someone at this bar. I know you're out. You don't have to respond to this. We can talk about it tomorrow. Yeah, because I think we just know What's everyone's comfortable with.

Ify Nwadiwe  31:29  

And I think that just, you know, kind of everything we've talked about in this episode comes from security, where it's like we've been together much longer. We are so secure In each other that there's that trust there that you know we were talking about.

Ishik  31:43  

I think so often, whenever we have conversations about things like check ins or scheduling time for like, communication or whatever, people will have this reaction of that takes, like, the magic out of the relationship and like, how, how are you, how are you going to have, like, a fun time in Your relationship. Like, how are you gonna be, like, hot for sex and stuff if you're scheduling chat times for you know, like, like, it's HR or whatever the fuck shit they say. And like, I think it's valuable to come from you guys, because you guys talk non stop about how much you fuck, right? Like, about how horny you are. Like, it's like, yeah, all the time, and your content is like, we're the Hornies, like, we're the freaks, like, and so it doesn't ruin the vibe. It definitely doesn't ruin the vibe, right? So it's like.

Emily Louise  32:28  

No I think it makes the vibe better, because I feel seen and felt on multiple levels. 

Ify Nwadiwe  32:33  

Yeah, that extra, I guess, spiciness, I'll say, where you just know, like, everyone feels good. Everyone's like, there's no worries behind anyone the eyes, you know, you're also just like, the freedom. Like, everyone's like, Oh, that takes the spice out of relationship. But it's like, I don't know. I feel like the spice can be taken at looking at your partner and they sigh and not knowing if you did something wrong. And so you don't know if you want to walk up and comfort them, or if you want to sit there and try and figure out the thing you forgot to do, versus being able to move throughout your space together knowing that if anything has needed to be talked about it, it has been, or it will be, and you can just approach each other freely. 

Ishik  33:13  

I mean, I'll definitely say, like, I know she'll like, let out a sigh, right? And I'll be like, Oh, baby. Like, are you upset about something, whatever? And then she's just like, No, I just haven't breathed for a while. 

Genevieve  33:24  

I have trouble breathing. Panic attacks. I'm like, Oh, I forgot to breathe. Don't worry. I'm not mad.

Ishik  33:29  

And so like, for me in that moment, I'm like, okay, cool, great, I love you. And then I'll give her a kiss. Like, oh, okay, cool. I feel safe now, right? 

Genevieve  33:37  

And I love that he asked me, because I don't mind him walking around thinking I'm pissed. I'm like, no, just.

Ishik  33:41  

But yeah, it evokes, actually, a feeling of closeness, because now I feel secure.

Emily Louise  33:47  

Well, we sort of had the same not issue, but the same thing. I clench my jaw quite a bit, and I only take big, deep size when I'm very relaxed, because I'm like, Oh, I'm letting all that anxiety out. And for so long, he was like, Are you good? Is everything fine? And I'm like, Yeah, I'm just relaxed and like, I'm just, like, letting my body, like, rest. And he'd be like, Okay. And then I think maybe, like, a little while, and it was like, Oh, that is actually what's happening. And now you don't, unless it's like, a very exasperated sigh, you won't ask.

Ify Nwadiwe  34:18  

Yeah. I think it was just recovering from dating someone who wanted a mind reader, you know, because I, you know, I think society was like, well, if I'm signed, you need to check in, because something must be wrong.

Ishik  34:33  

Part of why people want that kind of mind reader shit is that it's like, oh, like, if you know how to perfectly Intuit what my random sighs mean. That means that that's true love. And it's like, Nah, man. I mean that just means that they guessed right, I guess, like, yeah. And I found that Yeah, at this point I can interpret most of any sigh or like head movement, or like how your foot is twitching. I'm like, Oh, I know exactly what that means now.

Genevieve  35:00  

Because I told you.

Ishik  35:03  

Not because we were magically bred to be perfect true love partners from things, because we talked about it.

Ify Nwadiwe  35:08  

Yeah. I think just something that always sticks to me, whenever that idea of true love and stuff comes up, yeah, it's coming, is, you know, bell hooks in all about love. 

Emily Louise  35:21  

I was like, what's coming? And then I was like, oh.

Ify Nwadiwe  35:25  

There was a time where I was like, quoting Bell Hooks a period, but, you know, she says, like, you know, it's love. Isn't some magical thing that finds us, right? It's the it's an active effort. We make the choice to love, and we feed into that. And there is a difference. And when you look at it that way, then, yeah, you stop waiting for the magical, you know, intuition, which, like, funny enough, it will still like happen. I think the like, a couple, like, a week or so ago, we were at a bar, and I went and grabbed something for em, and she was like, I love you. And I was like, Well, I just like, You got exactly what I wanted. 

Emily Louise  36:00  

Oh yeah, we were at the bar, but then you went to go do something, and I was like, I love you so much. This is exactly what I wanted. Like, thank you for just knowing who I am as a person. 

Ify Nwadiwe  36:08  

Yeah, and it's like, so you still have, like, those moments and that, you know, feels better, because that is like, derived information from being from each other, and not like, trying to, like, be Professor X and so kind of like, now, you know, dating someone who's like, no, something's wrong. I'm gonna tell you. 

Emily Louise  36:25  

So, yeah, I'm gonna tell you, maybe faster than I should, that something's wrong.

Music

Genevieve  36:37  

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Music

Ishik  37:45  

I got the reigning champion of, um, actually, I know you both are fucking nerds, right? Nerd recognize nerd and I gotta talk about nerd shit, because it is important. I think pretty much every non monogamous person I meet is some kind of nerdy, right? So if it's D&D, or it's TCGs, or, you know.

Genevieve  38:05  

That’s a lot of acronyms. For people who aren’t gamers, all five of them.

Ishik  38:09  

Dungeons and dragons, trading card games, cosplay, fan fiction, like sci fi, storytelling, whatever it is, right?

Genevieve  38:17  

I mean, i feel like a good hefty portion of polyamorous people, I find out they've started a D&D campaign. 

Emily Louise  38:23  

That's our favorite joke. You get it, you get a polycule so you have a D&D table.

Ify Nwadiwe  38:28  

Well, my new one has been tired, polycule for D&D table, wired polycule for commander pod.

Ishik  38:36  

Like, do you guys have a theory about why? Why it is like that? 

Emily Louise  38:41  

Oh, yeah. Playing tabletop games, you have to learn how to work as a cohesive unit with multiple people. You have to be on the same page about what you want to do, and if someone wants to do something different, you have to have a full conversation about that. They're going to do something different than the rest of the group. And I think that inherently gives you good communication skills and also makes you realize how you can get along with different people in different ways.

Ify Nwadiwe  39:05  

I think, yeah. And then, on the other hand, it's also a game of boundaries. You, you're you come with a set line of okay, as your DM. This is the world that I'm telling you a story in. This is the realm in which you can create characters in and this is the subject matter that we're crafting a story around. And then if you get more granular with it, every time you're kind of going through the story at a table, you're talking to your DM, and you're like, hey, I would like to do this thing. Do I have permission to do it? And then you roll a dice to do it. And I think that is just a it is a game that thrives when you have good communication, you understand boundaries, and you're very comfortable doing those things. And I think that that naturally works for anyone who's doing anything kinky or any type of like, you know, polyamorous, ethical, ethically non monogamous relationship. 

Emily Louise  39:58  

And there's a bunch of hot elves. 

Ishik  40:01  

Goals and scheduling and time management too. 

Emily Louise  40:04  

Oh yes, yeah, because I feel like all nerdy things. Like, although people are very much into dungeons and dragons and Magic, The Gathering, like, even still, started as counter culture. And like, when we saw that stuff as kids, it's very specific group of people playing it. And it was like, Oh, what are those nerds doing? Yeah. And then I think as stuff gets more mainstream, it's like, Oh, I found this whole group of people, but generally going against the norm, which is generally what you're doing in polyamory and non monogamy.

Genevieve  40:35  

Yeah. I mean, well, that makes sense too, because there's not just the desire for it, but like, the willingness to just be socially, publicly, doing something that's considered weird. So, yeah, yeah. And I think I don't know. I feel like most people who enjoy polyamory, not everyone who's doing it, but the ones who are having a good time tend to be nerdy about relationships, or at least, like, enjoy kind of complex conversations and, like, don't see it as much of a chore. 

Ify Nwadiwe  41:05  

Yeah, I think you are. That's a straight up bullseye, I think, with the both of us having podcasts specifically talking about these things and getting, like, super jazzed. Like, it was, like, very surprising when we were coming up with our relationship because I was so sure. I was like, because, you know, everyone loves reading the am I the assholes? And this is something I just did one time, and was hanging out and, oh, on Twitch, yeah, on Twitch. And we were like, Let's, let's read through some of these relationship every because, to me, I already was like, Well, everyone does. Am I the asshole and and I was like, but like, relationship advice is just as unhinged. And I think it is because it is like, very, it's this or that, like, it's very like binary. And I think for us, it's very fun to kind of weigh all the different sides in it. Like, if you, if anyone listen, hasn't listened to our pod, and we're gonna have to have y'all on, yeah? Like, there is this element to seeing all sides, oh, 100%

Ishik  42:04  

Oh, 100%. I did want to ask so, like, you know, you guys have been doing it. How long have you been doing the pod for now? 

Ify Nwadiwe  42:10  

Like, couple years. It's almost about to be a year. Yeah, yeah. Hey.

Ishik  42:13  

So you've been doing the podcast for a year. You've probably heard hundreds of stories at this point. Was there one that, for either of you that really, like, sticks in your mind, like, holy shit, I can't believe people live like this or like something that was totally crazy. Like, was there, like, not maybe necessarily your favorite story, but something that was, like, really wild to hear about.

Emily Louise  42:34  

I don't have like, one specifically, but I am, like, shocked at the amount of women who will write stories about their partners who are men and are like, this relationship is so great. This is this and this and this, but he hasn't touched me in a year, or he won't go down on me because he says I stink, or, like, all this, like crazy stuff. I'm like, so is it good? Because that seems pretty awful.

Ify Nwadiwe  42:58  

Yeah. It's kind of like the the narrative thing, right? Where I think a lot of people, like a lot of good people, I find that a lot of times you're talking to someone who's real sweet, even when they know their partner is doing something horrible or heinous, they always want to be like, well, everything else is good. And this, I was like, but this the character trait you'd need to have to do something like this lets me know that everything else can't be good, because this is a sign of disrespect. So you're telling me that he's respectfully to you in every way, except for this one way, except for this very specific horrible thing. Yeah, it rarely is the case, unfortunately.

Genevieve  43:35  

And Ify? What about you is there, is there a story that stuck with you?

Ify Nwadiwe  43:39  

Mine, I think is gonna be. There was one about a diaper party, oh, my God. And like, like, a bachelor party, yeah, but for right before a baby. And it was said as if it was something everyone should know about, but, like, but like, kind of like a baby moon. But I guess the men come together before a dad, before a baby's born, and they all wear diapers. 

Genevieve  44:00  

Oh, I don't think that's for the baby. 

Ify Nwadiwe  44:03  

Yeah. And the poster was kind of, like, wigged out. She was like, am I? Am I we? Like, why does he want to do and really, it seemed like it was just something he was kind of humoring his friends with. But she it seemed like she was really turned off by the fact, like, it gave her the ick that he was going to wear a diaper with his friends. I forgot about that. Yeah, I can't stop thinking, mostly because they was set as if it was something we all should know, you know, a diaper. No, I don't.

Genevieve  44:31  

I think this is a great promo for your podcast, our relationship pod with Emmy and Ify. Check it out. 

Music

Genevieve 44:40

Thank you so much for everything that you shared today. I think it's really going to be helpful for a lot of people, because I think a lot of people's relationships looks a version of of what you're describing, or that would even be their ideal. So it's nice to hear like the inner workings of like, how, how you make it work, how you having a good time, truly. 

Ify Nwadiwe  44:59  

I think you know. So this, just this whole podcast, is such a big help when I think back to when I was, you know, talking about when I first kind of discovered myself, and trying to, like, look online and get an idea for what polyamory is and how it works. And even talking to me, they're like, well, it's what you make it, and you're like, and that's scary, right? Where, like, everything else seems very like there are kind of like set rules that everyone kind of knows. And this one is like, Well, no, you just talk to your partner. And at the time, I was like, I don't know what you're talking about. What do you a lot of people find security in a, like, known set of boundaries, versus having to sit down and figure it out and kind of have the growing pains that come with that. And at the end of the day, we said this on our pod yesterday, and I'll say it again. You know, there's so much going on in the world today. You know, you have genocide, you have elections, you have fascism growing across the world. There's just every it sometimes can feel like everything is on fire. So with that time you have outside of thinking about that, that time you have with the people that you love and your friends, you should always be doing things that excite you and that are extremely fun, and you shouldn't settle for less.

Emily Louise  46:15  

And recharge your battery to be able to deal with all the other horrible stuff.

Genevieve  46:19  

Yeah, wow. I think that's a good note to close on. I agree, yeah, yeah. Where can people find each of you? What are your projects and your social media handles?

Emily Louise  46:29  

I'm Oh my Emily Louise on Instagram, if you're an adult, I'm not that Princess Peach on only fans.

Ify Nwadiwe  46:38  

I'm Ify Nwadiwe on Twitter and Instagram, Ify comedy.com, on blue sky, on any of those platforms. You can see what I'm up to. But definitely check out dropout TV for, um, actually, and all the great shows we have there, like gastronauts, and we got a bunch of new stuff on the way in our podcast. Oh yes, of course. Check on our podcast, our relationship pod, it is wherever you wherever you got this pod, you can just search. It'll probably be there.

Ishik  47:07  

And if you're looking for more polyamory content, Genevieve, as always, is on Tiktok and Instagram at chill polyamory. She's on YouTube as well chill polyamory, where she discusses non monogamy in film and TV. 

Genevieve  47:19  

So you can support those projects and this podcast directly on Patreon, where you'll also get early access to videos, private stories that I want behind a pay wall. Not everybody gets access to that live Q and A's and an option for one on one, peer support and pen pals. So that's patreon.com/chill, polyamory. 

Ishik  47:37  

This has been I Could Never and for everyone listening, remember that just because you've never done something before doesn't mean that you can't do it. Bye.