Genevieve  0:07  

Welcome to I could never a show about non monogamy and the many ways it can look. I'm Genevieve from Chill Polyamory on Instagram, Tiktok and YouTube, and I'm joined, as always, by my co host and partner, ishik.

Ishik  0:18  

Oh, was that my I'm so sorry. I definitely read the script for today's episode. My name is ishik, and I'm sort of here. 

Genevieve  0:29  

Well, it is not just us here today. We are also very happy to be joined by our guest, Denise. Hi, Denise,

Denyse Davis  0:37  

hi, hello,

Ishik  0:38  

hello, hello for anyone who doesn't know, Denise is an artist, photographer and traveler. She's also a Playboy bunny and only fans creator and was recently on the polyamorous dating show, couple to throuple. We're so glad to have you here today. 

Denyse Davis  0:52  

Thanks for having me.

Ishik  0:53  

But before we can get into any of that, I do have a very important question, do you have the time to listen to me vibe or vent

Genevieve  1:03  

about nothing and everything all at once.

Ishik  1:07  

Exactly

Genevieve  1:08  

we are a couple of American idiots. For anyone who is unfamiliar, vibe or vent is our icebreaker, where we go around and we just talk about something that we're either excited about this week, something that we're vibing about, or something that's frustrating that we gotta get off our chest and vent about. Let's start with you. Ishik, are you vibing or are you venting today?

Ishik  1:30  

I'm going to be venting today, and I always prefer to not end our vent. So let's start low and shoot up. Words get high. I chose that language purposefully,

Denyse Davis  1:41  

that kind of podcast.

Ishik  1:42  

Oh, it's that kind of

Genevieve  1:45  

he's like, sober for 13 years.

Ishik  1:50  

Our sink is super broken. I know this is a really petty vent, but it's really frustrating. Our sink is totally broken. Can't use it. We told our landlord. It's like, oh yeah, we'll come check that out. I'll have somebody come from another company in like, a week, and it's really getting in the way of my ability to cook. It's pretty frustrating. Again, I know in the grand scheme of the world, there's a lot more, you know, real things happening, but it's, uh, I'm venting. 

Denyse Davis  2:15  

You’re camping cooking. Yeah, I'm just like, camping indoors. That's very true.

Genevieve  2:20  

Yeah, we should get a little camping cook stove. 

Ishik  2:23  

Actually be really cute. Yeah, damn. You've already lifted this into You're welcome. 

Denyse Davis  2:29  

That's what I'm here for. 

Ishik  2:31  

Denise, what about you? What do you what do you bring in today? Are you vibing? You're venting? 

Denyse Davis  2:34  

Well, I will vent, since we just had a vent, you know?

Ishik  2:38  

I mean, you can do whatever you want. We get all three vents we want that's true. 

Denyse Davis  2:41  

That's true. We have autonomy. But you know what? I think I will mention that I am getting extremely buff, and by extremely buff, I have raised like five pounds of weight in the gym. And that's that's really cool for me. I'm really buff in the gym. It makes me feel hot and strong and cool, and then probably a little horny. And I think that those are all things that I like to have in my life.

Genevieve  3:07  

Yeah, they feed into each other. Check yourself out. You're like, I'm doing great now. I'm confident. I'm gonna flirt. Who are you? You're cute. 

Ishik  3:15  

Yeah, for me, it's definitely like, I'm looking in the mirror. I'm like, I'd have sex with you.

Genevieve  3:22  

Well, I'm also vibing today. I'm actually planning my first vacation in years. It sounds more dramatic. So I've been self employed since 2016 and so I've taken little trips and stuff, but it's always like for work or for an obligation with, like, family or a wedding or something, and I've just never felt like I could spare time, just for time's sake, when it comes to being self employed, where I'm just like, I don't need that, right? And it's been so the first few years were so hot and cold, and then with the lockdowns and stuff, it's like I was in survival mode with just like we need to get enough to get by. And now there's a little bit of peace, and I realized I kind of have quiet, not burnout so much. It's just some exhaustion that snuck up on me. So we're planning a little road trip through rural Germany. We're gonna go look at some castles. We're gonna bring our pups into the countryside. So yeah, I'm really excited about that. 

Denyse Davis  4:24  

Oh, wow, that's actually gonna be so special.

Genevieve  4:27  

You know all about that, being a traveler yourself. So we definitely want to get into that in a bit. But, um, but yeah, first we we like to start by getting a sense of who you are, your non monogamy, the shape of your current polyamory. So obviously, for some listeners, they might have an idea in their head, just if they've seen you on couple to thruple, but we know that's not the whole story. So can you tell us a little bit about who's in your life right now, and what does that look like for you? 

Denyse Davis  4:54  

Yeah, um, if anybody knows me from couple to thruple, I am dating Corian Wilder, but I. To date other people. So I just wanted to specify that we are an open triad. Someone had asked me earlier, like, oh, how many people do you think are in your polycule? And I was struggling to count. I want to say it's like past 20 because, because, technically, that's like metamours And everybody who anybody is seeing or romantic or sexual with and that's a pretty large group right now where I'm at, and it's the first time I've gotten that before, and I'm very excited about it.

Genevieve  5:30  

So you're in this open triad. How would you describe some of the other relationships, especially the ones that are closest to you at the moment?

Denyse Davis  5:37  

I think especially with the way that I travel, it has kind of a natural ebb and flow. It's definitely just us meeting each other as humans and seeing where we're at in the time being and enjoying that time together. 

Ishik  5:53  

For a lot of listeners, I suspect it will feel like a really foreign idea of having that many people in a polycule Can you walk us through how you got from being ostensibly a solo person or maybe dating one person, to being in something like that?

Denyse Davis  6:10  

So there already were some polycules starting to form that were smaller, and then I think that they started to date each other, and then somebody, just one person actually knew, somebody that I knew, and then invited me to, like one event. And it was just sparks from there. 

Ishik  6:29  

Can I ask what kind of an event it was?

Denyse Davis  6:32  

Okay? Well, actually, the first event was an art event, um, and it became more than an art event, but that was not on purpose, um, and I was like, okay, hot, cool, I like these people. The next event was a sexy event, and then a few people reached out to me, like, specifically, individually to spend time. And then I started individually dating people. And then like, the group got more intimate and bigger, and started doing more things together as like, we all started spending more time. 

Ishik  7:02  

Is there a lot of, like, overlapping connections and interconnections between different people within your kind of large, larger polycule, or is it kind of like Islands, where each connection is kind of separate from each other?

Denyse Davis  7:15  

It's a lot of overlapping. So we spend a lot of time together, and then people that we connect with, connect with others, connect with others, and then it just kind of continues to layer and overlap, which is really fun. I've never got to, like, flirt with someone about someone that they already are dating. Like, that's a that's new, that's there's something really fun about learning about somebody through someone else, which is a different kind of dating that i i like a lot more than any of the previous dating that I used to have. 

Ishik  7:49  

I'd love to hear more about the polycule. You know, a lot of people might see like a large group like that, who all get along and have kind of a variety of different types of relationships, and sometimes including sex, and they might project a certain kind of stereotype onto that. You know, what are some of the maybe like, wrongest assumptions that you've come across versus what it's actually really like for you? 

Denyse Davis  8:13  

Ooh, um, at this point, most of the people that I get to vibe with are not making horrible assumptions about me, which is good, but I would guess that people think that we're just like sex loving weirdos, which I guess is technically true, but there's kind of a running joke that the majority of people who are poly right now are software engineers or in healthcare, which is definitely true of a molecule. The majority of them are just like normal, very cool people who also are happen to be polyamorous,

Genevieve  8:45  

Being a woman with so many different types of relationships on the road in a pretty non normative way. Do you ever face questions from people that you're getting close to that are like, where is this going? Or wanting some future plans that you don't feel comfortable with, like, how do you navigate that?

Denyse Davis  9:04  

So there's a lot of ways to build a life together that are not in these traditional roles. Our molecule talks about this a lot, and we know adjacent polycules that have already created they've bought land and created space together, and we have a few, like little triads that have gone off and, like, gotten housing or something like that, together, and someone else is trying to create a co op for the legalities around polyamory, so that you can kind of buy into the Co Op, and then you have some kind of power legally with what you can purchase as a group, and things that you can do as a group, like medical things I'm not sure that you can't normally do when you're just alone and you're unmarried, we do a lot of them are artists. A lot of people do these, like elaborate builds together. I This is my first time seeing any of that, but it's really fun to see. People bring their skills and their creativity to something that everybody gets to work on. And some of these things take, like, a year to plan out and to know that you're doing, and get the tickets to whatever event and, like, showcase the art and whatever it is. And that's that's something that I'm seeing right now is like, kind of art together, which is a little bit more intimate to me personally,

Ishik  10:22  

That's actually sick. I would love to go to an art installation where the entirety of the art was created by like, all different members of like, kind of a large, loose polycule. That's awesome.

Genevieve  10:34  

Well, I know I've worked with artists a lot in my life. They don't always get along. So I'm also curious, you know, if you with, like, with that many people in a polycule, when there's conflict, like, how do you deal with it? How is that handled in the group?

Denyse Davis  10:52  

So, so far in this polycule, we have had a huge disagreement. Somebody in our group did start a nonprofit called DBT with friends that quite like, I want to say half of the molecule attend on, I think Mondays and Thursdays, because DBT is dialectical behavior therapy. It's a type of therapy that just helps you better move through the world. You have better coping skills. And I do think it's just like a mind changing process so that you have better resiliency skills. And when you come into relationship with a lot of curiosity, what's going on when you participate in these behaviors, what's going on when you talk about these things normally, it's very insightful, and it's really quite interesting, actually, in connecting to hear where people come from and why they're doing things. And they probably are doing things different than you. And maybe that's why I might kind of automatically take offense to them or confusion to them, but when I hear where they come from, then it's like, ah, aha. I know you better. I kind of love that now that I know what you went through and how you got there. I love that now. So I think that half of the molecule having that benefits the way that we interact with each other, because it's rarely ever gotten to a point of escalation, because it's never a blaming situation.

Ishik  12:09  

That's awesome. I think that's really super cool that so many people within the polycule are doing the work, and everyone's coming in good faith and acting in good faith. That's really awesome.

Denyse Davis  12:19  

I also think that our group is really big on preventative care. So if we're all spending time together in a situation that can become sexy, we normally have, like, a consent talk beforehand. We, you know, cross our t's and dot our I's of like, what could come up where there are rooms for, like, privacy, for triggering events, how to say no, how to say yes. What that looks like for people. We're very happy with no's. We make no a happy situation so that nobody ever feels uncomfortable about that. So when people say no, I hear a lot of compliments around the room like, oh my gosh, thank you for communicating so that it feels really welcomed whenever you're expressing like, I'm not sure, I don't know, because we would much rather you not continue if you're not sure, if you don't know, somebody in our molecule has a sticker that says you got node by and their name. Everyone can get a little sticker whenever they receive it.

Genevieve  13:17  

Oh, that's really sweet. Yeah. It sounds like a really collaborative environment like it sounds like everybody has everybody's back.

Ishik  13:23  

Yeah. I mean, you know, with so many people who've got each other's back like that, it feels like that would be definitely an environment that would probably breed a lot of

Genevieve  13:34  

Breed. Where are you going with that, baby?

Ishik  13:39  

Breed a lot of compersion is what I was gonna say.

Genevieve  13:45  

Real quick. Aside, I don't think we've defined conversion. So if that's a new term for anybody, Compersion is the warm and fuzzy feeling that you get when somebody that you care about is enjoying their time with someone else. Okay, back to you. 

Ishik  13:57  

Yes. So essentially, does it? Do you feel like the environment breeds a sense of conversion, or, you know, like, a sense of, like, not a lack of ownership over each other?

Denyse Davis  14:12  

Yes, yeah, it's not a feeling of ownership. Like, for some reason I am supposed to be the only one that has this, in fact, that that kind of doesn't seem very loving to me. And maybe that's, you know, I'm sure that people would differ with that opinion, but I feel like, if you love something, oh, you let it go. You let it, you let it live the way that it wants to live. To me, the way that I care about someone is I want to see them live their best life. That is what gives me joy, is to see them receive joy. And sometimes people receive joy with other people. And I like that. I've never disliked that the only time any inklings of jealousy or discomfort or something like that would show up is if I feel like I am missing something, if I feel like something is being taken away. From me, then I feel maybe some sort of discomfort. But it was never about them receiving joy from someone else. It was only about our relationship suffering. 

Genevieve  15:07  

Yeah, it sounds like there's not a possessiveness and that there's only stress if there just feels like lack but it's not a default of like mine that you're experiencing.

Denyse Davis  15:17  

I also think it's kind of an indigenous approach to look at something and not go I want to have it. I think I'm trying to remember where the quote is from. But you know, if you see a beautiful flower, you don't pick it, you just enjoy its beauty. Pardon me if I'm paraphrasing. But from what I understand, a lot of indigenous perspectives of ownership are that you share the land and it is something that is yours and that you maintain it and it's something that you oversee, but it's not there was some confusion when settlers came and they were like, Oh, can we own this land? And they were like, Yeah, sure. And then they were like, great. So this is ours forever, and you never get to touch it ever again. They were like, Oh, that's not we have different meanings of that that's definitively different. I think it's much more interesting to look at the wonders all around you and be like, Wow, I love this thing where it is and in the context of where it grows and of where it stays beautiful. And that's something that I very much hang on to in my loving relationships. 

Ishik  16:21  

Yeah. I mean, I think that a lot of people can really struggle with turning that kind of theory into practice. Do you have any kind of examples of of how you've been able to bring that into your life, into your relationships?

Denyse Davis  16:35  

I was dating somebody new, and we were supposed to meet up. It's supposed to be like a special little date together. And they were a little bit dysregulated, and I was trying to figure out what was going on. I was like, are you okay? Like, should we cancel, like, something up? And they were like, oh my, my other partner, there's just some beef happening. And I just really want to show up for them, but I'm like, a little bit torn between wanting to be on this date with you, but also wanting also wanting to show up for their needs. And I was like, Well, why don't we just recalibrate our date? I mean, you're welcome to cancel, of course, and we can reschedule, and we can prioritize ourselves, but if you're interested, we could just go on a little journey together to make them a care package and send them messages and let them know what we're finding, and kind of just go on a little journey to cheer them up. And it was really fun learning about this other person and what they like and what their style is, and try to find items that they would enjoy and make them laugh. And I got to see how this person cares for someone which is hot, which is cool, which is connecting. And then I also really liked learning about this other person that I was like, Who should I like get to know them more?

Genevieve  17:54  

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Ishik  18:42  

To the extent that you feel comfortable for yourself. I'd love to hear a little bit more about, you know, what your first exposure to non monogamy looked like, to the concept of polyamory. And like, at what point did you realize it was for you? And maybe, like, kind of some of the path from there to here? 

Denyse Davis  19:00  

Ah, okay, I remember being young and not fitting quite into traditional mindsets about love and relationships, and I didn't really know that. I just knew that things were like a little confusing. I was never trying to date multiple people, but it was more so this control factor, it was what we're talking about, where I like other people experiencing their joy, and I also think that I should be able to experience my joy, and it was showing up in even things like friendships, where they're like, why did you invite your friend to that and not me? Like these kinds of strange expectations that I didn't know I was supposed to be performing that would show up a lot. And then the first person that introduced me to non Monogamy was, okay. Don't at me about this. Do not judge me. But the first person I was dating in a non monogamous relationship, they were also part of a polycule, and we dated for a while, and it was fine, but we made a lot of mistakes. I was young, and I don't feel like I really what I was doing, and they were all. And I feel like they could have helped me along in the process a little bit better. There was a lot of expectation about how things should go. There was a lot of shoulds and should nots, and not a lot of allowance and understanding they had a protection role, like we were supposed to be the only people unprotected. But then our relationship kept changing, and it was like, maybe time to break up because they were moving to a different continent, and then we just ended up continuing. And there was a lot of ebbing and flowing and confusion, and we were like, kind of long distance. But I ended up breaking that policy, because in in my young mind, I was like, the nature of our relationship has changed, like we literally don't have sex, so therefore this was not a policy that we uphold anymore. I did not ask questions, I did not double check. I did no preventative care. They also didn't they didn't communicate with me. We were not communicating while our relationship was changing. What was going on, it was very heavy. We didn't really know how to move through the changes, because it was so heavy that I think we're just, like, avoiding difficult conversations. So I broke that rule. That's like, a kind of cheating. And then I I didn't even know that I had broken the rule, because I didn't realize it was a rule anymore. So I was like, oh yeah, this happened. And they were like, you what? And I was like, isn't that? Isn't that what we're doing now? I thought, didn't you literally just tell me I'm confused. And so then they were like, Okay, you need to only see me. This is like, a gross breach of trust, like we need to completely change what we're doing. And then we essentially became a monogamous couple, but long distance, and it became extremely toxic because we already were missing those communication factors, so then it just got worse from there. So I hope that anybody listening to this knows that most people stumble and bumble through their beginning stages of non monogamy. 

Genevieve  21:56  

How long ago was it that you found non monogamy or started describing yourself as such.

Denyse Davis  22:01  

That was a decade ago. So I remember in the beginning, there was just a lot of like hoops, of like regurgitating messaging that I had heard, but it wasn't something that I actually thought about myself. Most of the things that we grow up with this institutional messaging, there are things that we believe through our lives, and it's hard to know whether that was a value that I actually had or if it was just something told to me. And so it was a lot harder to know what were my thoughts and what were things that were taught to me, and so becoming a part of these non traditional structures of love, of relationships, they tell you to question all of it, and if I come back to the same values, great, but at least I know it was mine now and then. I think those initial conversations with people was the first time you get to, like, think about it, because maybe someone differs from you and you're like, Whoa. I didn't even know that that was possible. I also think that going to school for community health and taking human sexuality and learning to question these things that we are just like a part of the way that we live, that was really beneficial in undoing those

Genevieve  23:15  

I think one conversation we haven't had with anyone on the podcast yet is really about like, destigmatizing STIs and that it's a medical diagnosis, not a moral one. Have you ever had any conversations with people just navigating the logistics of, okay, you're positive. What do we do next? 

Denyse Davis  23:33  

Oh, yeah, definitely. It's just one of those things, bodies be bodies, and a lot of these things are kind of a garden that are going to be constantly changing, and we all kind of have to water it and work together on making sure that it's maintained. So those conversations, I think, even if maybe there's like some surprise or not a lot of knowledge about something specific, it's still very easy to be like, it's all cool. Here's what we know. The next time that you go into your doctors, you can ask them and get like specifics about that so that we can feel very educated, and like information can get passed along easily and it's okay, and that we just want to make sure that we're all safe. Just recently, we all just threw in all of our test results in the group chat. It's kind of funny, because when you're dating one person, it like, is a little strange to get to know each other's body parts and talk about our private areas. And normally that's like a level of intimacy that takes time. And then you've kind of been doing this a while, and you've been around the block, and you're like, oh my gosh, penises are just penises and vaginas are just vaginas. And we're just like talking about them, and we're like, Oh, does this look different? Do you guys see? Oh, like people are going and getting their vasectomies and IUDs, and we're like, talking openly about the experience and what that entails. And it's just very normal that it really just feels like talking about any other like, Oh, I got a cold or something like that. 

Ishik  24:59  

Yeah. I mean. Think a lot of people can struggle with that topic, you know, like sex, sexuality. Do you feel like that's something that's always come more naturally to you, or is it something that you kind of, like, learned along the way?

Denyse Davis  25:09  

So while relationship structure in non monogamy came very naturally, the sex stuff did not. I had a lot of like, shame and confusion, and I was like, I don't know, I don't know what we're doing, and it's all like, scary and spooky. And so that was what I had. And I feel like a lot of our group comes from religious backgrounds in various contexts, and we all kind of had to be like, Oh, these are things that do not serve us and are not true, aren't even real. I mean, in Utah, specifically, where a lot of us are from, there's a big religious community here, and there have been some influxes of like, anal gonorrhea or something, because that doesn't count as sex, therefore you don't have to protect it. And so weird things happen, and now we know about them, and we're all adults now, and it's like we don't have to be tied down by how we grew up in the awful education we got. We're gonna educate ourselves.

Ishik  26:08  

I mean, in the eyes of the Lord, butt sex is just a handshake.

Genevieve  26:14  

Sounds like a slogan, baby.

Ishik  26:16  

Hey, I'm, to the church. I'm available for marketing.

Denyse Davis  26:22  

You guys heard about soaking. 

Ishik  26:24  

Oh my god yes. For the listeners, why don't you go ahead and describe what's so

Genevieve  26:31  

enlighten us.

Ishik  26:32  

You brought it up. This is on you. Okay? 

Denyse Davis  26:36  

So to avoid, quote, unquote, losing your virginity, because this doesn't count as sex. Of course, you penetrate penis in vagina, but you don't move. You just leave it there. You just leave it there, and maybe you'll find a friend jump on the bed with you so that, uh, something can happen. It's not she didn't do anything. God still loves you. 

Ishik  27:03  

You're not pumping so God still loves you. 

Denyse Davis  27:07  

Oh, my God, yep, that's how that works. That's all he cares about. Really.

Genevieve  27:12  

I mean, does that count as group sex?

Denyse Davis  27:14  

I don't know. I feel like it does. Honestly,

Ishik  27:18  

It does, right? They’re participating. Okay, listen, let them. Let them have their Yeah, let them get their soak on.

Denyse Davis  27:25  

Oh my gosh.

Genevieve  27:29  

So you know, on the subject of non normative intimacy, let's say you mentioned that you are on the road a lot, and something that a lot of people will ask me, when they travel a lot or when they have long distance love is, how do we keep the fire alive? How do we have intimacy when we can't touch each other? So I'm curious, you know, how much you're on the road, how much you travel, and what does your intimacy wind up looking like with partners from a distance?

Denyse Davis  27:59  

I, so I've been pretty much on the road for like, two and a half years, and then I'll, like, stop at a place for a couple months. So I stopped in Tennessee for a couple months, and I stopped in Massachusetts for a month. My dog and I just want to go on hikes and go kayaking and be on rivers and lakes. So when I was younger, I was hardcore, no long distance anything. I was like, I'm an in person kind of gal. I'm present, I'm in the moment, I'm physical. How could we possibly do that over the phone? And then as I have grown there is a lot you can do through the phone, especially as I want to be more autonomous, my scope kind of spreads across the lands. I know people in a lot of places, and there is just no way to be in so many places at once that we've had to get creative. And it turns out, getting creative with people you're already connecting with is so fun. There's just so many things to play around with through your phone or through the computer or whatever it is that you're going to use. So I used to be hardcore, no sexting. Was not very interested in it, and then somebody had changed my tune, where we would end up telling these elaborate stories that just were so hot and like, you know how you read a really good smut book, and it's like, you cannot put it down. You're like, so excited to continue reading it. You could do that in your real life and with your real relationships, even when you're not together, physically together, you can get, like, as vivacious of a sex life just from, like, the storytelling alone. And then we would like design imagery for the story right together. That was definitely sexting, but it was also more fun. And then maybe we'll just have like, a weekend Boogaloo together, where it's, like this loving travel affair, and then I run off into the distance, and we have to, like, maintain connection through our phones. Or maybe they'll join me and we'll both, like Van life for a while. Or maybe we'll be in a safe. And will do city life while I'm there. So it just depends. There is not really a set schedule.

Genevieve  30:05  

Yeah, I love that. I love that. I think everybody's long distance ways of staying in contact. It's like an amplification of what you already do in person. I don't know if that's your experience. It's like, if something is very sensual, then recreating that in some way or something is very parallel play than just having video chats while you both cook next to each other and don't talk like, you know, just sort of like, what is the digital version of this that you can recreate in a fun, kind of unique way specific to the medium of using your phone? Yeah, I love that.

Ishik  30:39  

You're definitely right, that it is a person to person, individual thing, right? Because my first thought was like, Oh yeah, using the phone to control a vibrator over the internet, right? That was, that was the first thing that I thought. So clearly, everyone has their own ideas here, right?

Unknown Speaker  30:52  

Yeah, just

Ishik  30:54  

sudden, random buzz, I don't know, like, Oh,

Denyse Davis  30:56  

hello. They were thinking of me.

Ishik  30:58  

They're saying hi.

Genevieve  31:00  

And now I'm thinking of them in the in the middle of the woods, if you have Wi Fi signal, and then all of a sudden, yes,

Ishik  31:05  

All of the signals come through at once. They've been texting you, yeah.

Denyse Davis  31:10  

And I don't know if I'm alone in this, but something about being in nature is so sensual to me. Like I often just, like, find a river that nobody else is at and just get naked and, like, hang out in the water. So if I if I kept my vibrator around for them to use, I'd be like, Wow, they know me. They know me so well.

Ishik  31:40  

So I mean, I would be remiss if I didn't ask a little bit about the show. Yes. So regarding the show, couple the throuple, for any listeners that haven't watched, can you give kind of a brief rundown on the premise of the show, along with your general arc?

Denyse Davis  32:00  

Yeah. Okay, so couple to throuple is a new show. It's, I think, the first non monogamy show, reality television show in the US. And it is about a group of couples that are living in a villa, and they try to meet singles and find a third. So a part of me was just like, what the hell this sounds like, a strange, hilarious adventure, and I'll be in Panama. It'll be beautiful. And then another part of me was like, okay, as an actively polyamorous person, I gotta represent. I gotta show up and represent on this type of show. So I'm one of those singles. Hey, hi. I mean, they were so funny when they were casting. They they were telling us that they were trying to get a large variety of people. And so then I showed up there, and actually was like, so shy, because I was like, look at these really cool and interesting and gay motherfuckers. Like, how am I gonna fit? Oh, god, there's like, a lot of pressure here to be as cool and interesting.

Ishik  32:57  

I mean, I'll say personally, there was definitely somebody in the in the the background of the singles that I was like, who, who's that? Oh my gosh. Why aren't we seeing more? I don't even know their name.

Denyse Davis  33:06  

The singles are so cool. I really wish that they had their moment, like, because that even would have been better TV, because we would have fallen in love with each one. We've been like, No, you have to pick Lena, you have to pick Mia. Like, we would have just wanted them to connect with somebody that we're connecting with and instead it was, like, we just didn't even get to meet all of them.

Ishik  33:24  

I think you're super Right. Like, that would have really, actually created, like, a real, like, American Idols type, rooting for your favorite single, right? Like, even, like, listen, turn it into challenges, right? Like, make them all like, like, have challenges, but they're like, I'm gonna get the affection of the like, listen, there's

Genevieve  33:42  

make it more competitive. 

Ishik  33:43  

Listen, there's a lot problem problematic with that. I'm not saying it's a good idea generally for the…

Denyse Davis  33:48  

But it's good TV, is what you're saying. But it's good TV, though.

Ishik  33:53  

That would, that would be again, reality TV marketing people, I'm available.

Genevieve  34:02  

Yeah, I mean, a singles centric, or at least a solo centric, you know, approach to couple to thruple. I would love to see, you know, they say singles, but I'm like, well, everybody might have their own partner. So they're just solo.

Denyse Davis  34:17  

Yeah, they, they made it sound like we weren't seeing anybody else, because then we're like, I mean, I don't know, but definitely people were dating other people.

Ishik  34:25  

Yeah, so, I mean, I definitely think that, you know, solo people, being approached by couples, or the premise of dating a couple, is definitely a hot topic, um, to say the least, for a lot of people. And I mean, there are definitely some people who have a flat rule that they will not date a couple or two people who are dating each other, for people who are interested in seeking a triad, or who are interested in dating a couple, you know, what kinds of things would you look out for, as like, green flags or red flags, or like, yeah, what's what's your perspective on it?

Denyse Davis  34:59  

Yeah, so I'm not, I'm not anti dating people who are dating each other, obviously, but I think you can pretty immediately tell whether you whether they have your interest at heart. You can kind of tell whether someone is communicating with you as a person versus as like a goal. People might not even know that they're accidentally being hierarchical or condescending when they are. We know So normally, wouldn't we? Like I think that there's gonna be that natural weeding out process where you're like, you are not speaking to me as a person, you are referring to me as something you are trying to do. There is like a goal here. There are expectations here and and there's kind of an inherent, I guess, issue with being a couple and looking for a third, and what you're looking for is a shared experience, because you can't share people. You can share time together, and you can share interests and yada yada, but at the end of the day, you really cannot share people. And so if the goal is a shared experience, you're already kind of gonna miss. Had you been in a throttle before? No, this was actually my first throuple. It was really interesting because as I was starting to date them, and I'm good at dating like multiple people, and it's fine, but I was meeting a new version of myself in dating. You know how? Like, if you're being watched, you act a little differently. And I don't want to say it's like masking or anything, it still feels very natural, but there's like, always that extra accountability, like, everybody knows what's going on, and we're all in relationship with each other, and there is no hiding from it. And I think that little extra layer of accountability made me a lot more honest, and I didn't tell as many narratives about what I thought was going on. I'm like, Oh, do they like me? Are we gonna do they want to do this? Like, what's our date gonna be like, Mike, I have all these extra thoughts about spending time with someone and dating, and maybe a lot of people can relate to that. But when there's an extra person, it's like, what do we think about this date? What do we think about this experience? It's just like a different thought process.

Ishik  37:12  

So I mean, when you're in this experience, right? You're there. There are all these other singles, there are all these couples. What was it about Cory and wilder that you felt particularly drawn to? Yeah, what was their vibe that made you feel like these are the people that I would love to get to know more?

Denyse Davis  37:29  

So even during the show, and I wish that they included some of these conversations, there was a lot of checking in. There was a lot of communication. They were asking me what my needs and wants and desires were pretty immediately. So there was no question of like, how we were moving through dating together, because they already knew that I really like physical touch, and that's something that, like, helps me feel safe in what we're doing. So then throughout us getting ushered around from activity to activity, maybe they would, like, touch my shoulder, like, play with my hair, and I would just know, like, oh, okay, we're good. Whereas I think some of the other throuples and couples were doing some guesswork, or maybe, like, maybe the show didn't want them to communicate about something, and it was a lot scarier and more difficult. And then seeing how Wilder takes care of Corey, even though, like, he could be cool, calm, chill, pretty much about whatever he still is. Like, no, I want to, I want to take into account, like, some of these major sensitivities that I was like, okay, so you're not, like, selfish, like you're, you're taking care of people while also being your own person. Like, that's a that's a really green flag. And then Corey was the one kind of leading these conversations that was like, I want to check in with you. What's going on with you. Like, this is kind of hard for me, so I can only imagine for you. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, you could have just been like, this is hard. I don't like this. I'm out peace. Instead, you're like, Okay, I literally have this other person invited into our bed, like I have a responsibility here to make sure that they're as safe and comfortable about this as I can be. That was also a major green flag. It's kind of funny, because they definitely seem like they're on the same page. They're definitely communicating amongst each other, and they don't ever seem like, I guess that's another green flag, because they don't ever topple over each other and like what they want or what they're trying to say, like they're very much like collaborating on how to interact with someone, and that's really beautiful to watch as a couple. But then they also very much have their own sense of self, even when they're like, happy to lean on one another, it doesn't feel like they're codependent, I guess, like they're very much they, they already value autonomy as much as I do.

Ishik  39:46  

Kind of like jumping off of that. You know, I think we definitely saw, or at least, I'll speak for myself, I saw that there were multiple contestants in the show who did express a desire to date more than just the cup. People that picked them, but then kind of weren't allowed to, by the structure of the show, by the couples that they were, you know, pursuing, I guess. You know, as someone who values your autonomy and has partners outside of the triad from that show, if a partner ever did tell you that you couldn't date someone else, what would your response to be

Denyse Davis  40:20  

I think you can glean, but I would not take that very kindly. I'm not interested in control. I mean, kind of related, this is a hill. I will die on a boundary. Is not a command. A lot of a lot of what we're supposed to be doing is just an invitation to allow people to know us, but you can't tell them what to do after that. If someone wants to tell me what they like and what their preferences are, again, they can invite me to know them. They can invite me to meet them in what they need, but they cannot control it. And it's a myth that you can control your partners and hopefully in a loving and understanding relationship, you share like your boundaries and your needs, and they hear them, and they genuinely want to meet them, but it's not a command. And even just like coming to a conversation in that way where they're like, you're not allowed to I'd be like, you can see what I am allowed to do. I am happy to show you what I can and can't do.

Speaker 1  41:24  

Yeah, yeah, no. I mean, I'm with you, you know. And I did like that on the show. I did notice that on the show that I didn't get that vibe at all from Corey or Wilder or you. It didn't feel like anybody was calling the shots on anybody else's relationship. It was, it was really nice. 

Ishik  41:42  

Yeah, I think for many of the contestants on the show, at least, what was, what we saw from them, along with the viewers and their reactions, there was this kind of perception that your relationships with Cory and wilder were like, quote, unquote, goals, right? Was that like a nice way to be perceived, or did it kind of flatten the reality of your triad as a set of real relationships between real people?

Denyse Davis  42:08  

I do think that it flattens the reality of our relationship. First of all, I think that the watchers are getting a little bit worse of a view of what's going on, because they don't get to see any of the personal work and the communication that's going on to make a relationship look like goals, which is just a little bit dishonest. The other thing is that when we were beginning or the relationship that was pretty new and confusing, we were really hoping to get more aid and kind of go through these challenges together that would make us closer and it would be more connecting. And we were actually wanting to do the thing. And instead, we were just like, okay, they're perfect. Everything's fine. And so then we were like, Oh, isn't this the part where we, like, actually learn how to be in a relationship? And they're like, No, you won the show was over. Goodbye. So that was a little bit jarring.

Ishik  43:09  

Yeah, so I mean, I'm guessing that the it's been a little while since the show, at least since filming the show, and you know, in that time, how has your relationship with Cory and wilder developed, and how has it kind of fit into your relationships? And, you know, your life on the road and stuff? Yeah.

Denyse Davis  43:28  

Okay, so technically, we've been dating for over a year now, and at first we just wanted to be in Panama together, because we were like, We're not gonna not spend time in this area, this beautiful, tropical location. So it was, like, the first time we got to interact with the world and each other, which is totally different dating. Because, like, technically, when you're first starting to date, you're like, oh, how do we text each other? Like, who texts first? And like, should we talk on the phone? And like, what kind of dates Do we like? And like, all of that is part of getting to know each other, and we just never did any of that. So now we're like, okay, like, who plans the thing? And like, who's getting dinner? And like, where are we going? And so, but it actually ends up going pretty seamlessly, because we like all of the same things, and we communicate pretty easily. So we had this blast adventure in Panama, and then after that, I kind of just went into like, satellite partner mode and kept meeting them in new locations, and we would travel there, and we would take photos and hike do outdoor stuff. I met corey's family in Massachusetts, and spent some time there. I've met them at their house quite a few times in California, and that's kind of just how it's been. Is, is I just like satellite around and then come to meet them in places, and we do fun and interesting things together. So it's like, you know how you gain a lot of intimacy just from going on vacation with someone? It's like every part of our relationship is going on a vacation together. So we're definitely like increasing intimacy. But. Like in a different way, slowly over time.

Genevieve  45:03  

Oh, well, sounds like a rare reality TV show win. Yeah. You know, with that thought, you know is, are there any other things you wanted to say about cobbled a throttle? Any, any parting thoughts for the listener about the show?

Denyse Davis  45:16  

Well, I hope that people watch it and make their own judgments about the show and the people on it. I do feel like I acted according to my own values, even if maybe a lot of people didn't get to see it. Cory and Wilder did too, and that's really all that matters to me.

Genevieve  45:34  

I mean, I'm honestly excited for the future of reality TV. I was like, Okay, I feel like we've broken a barrier. Yes, yes. Can we normalize it a bit more?

Denyse Davis  45:44  

Yeah, I don't know how we've had like, so many seasons at the bachelor and they're like, oh, like, I can't believe I'm falling for more than one person. I'm like, You're so close. You are so close to getting somebody.

Genevieve  46:00  

Thank you so much, Denyse for joining us. This is such a lovely chat. 

Denyse Davis  46:04  

Thank you. You guys were a delight. This is so fun. 

Genevieve  46:07  

To that end, we'd love to invite people to find your artwork, find everything that you're putting out there, because you're doing a lot of things. So where can people find you and support you?

Denyse Davis  46:18  

My main social media is Instagram. I make a lot of stuff on there. It takes a lot of effort, even though I really don't get paid for it. So I hope that people enjoy those videos. Denise D, e, n, y, s, e r, d, a  and then also, on my Instagram bio, you can find my links to some of my art pages or my spicy pages.

Ishik  46:39  

Perfect, wonderful. And if you are looking for more polyamory content, Genevieve is on Tiktok and Instagram as well at chill polyamory. She's also on YouTube chill polyamory, where she discusses non monogamy in film and TV. 

Genevieve  46:54  

If anyone listening wants to support those projects and this podcast directly. You can find me on patreon.com/chillpolyamory, where you'll also get early access to videos, private stories, live Q and A's and an option for one on one support.

Ishik  47:08  

And for everyone listening. This has been I could never and remember that just because you've never done something for doesn't mean that you can't do it.